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How Equal Do You Want Your Rights?
I hear so much talk of equal rights. Most recently was equal pay laws which we do not need. Pay confidentiality existed long before it was made into a frivolous equal rights issue, before there was equality in the workforce. Two people of the same sex may in fact have had the same job but for whatever reason one person's skill was valued over another. I feel that is up to the employer and fortunately in America we have a free job market, the seeker is welcome to go elsewhere and the employer can lose out.
So here is an equal rights issue that falls under one of my “pet peeves”. I have written before about female circumcision and that I feel that if cultures other than our own and not on American soil wish to practice it, that is their choice. Female circumcision also known as female genital mutilation or FGM. The most common form is trimming of the clitoral hood and is most often performed in hospitals with no anesthesia lessoften it willinclude removal of the clitors.
Stop!
Know that the most common physical cause of anorgasma (lack of or difficulty reacing orgasm) in women is the clitoral hood and the correction for that is, you got it, circumcision and it is an adult's decision to make and guess what IS NOT covered by medical insurance and even illegal in some states?
Yet we have baby boys getting circumcised everyday and it is NOT medically necessary no matter what you would like to believe and really is not much different than the most common type of FGM:
“The most common form is trimming of the clitoral hood and is most often performed in hospitals with no anesthesia.”
Yes, sounds exactly like the unnecessary trauma baby boys are put through every day here in America and yet it is perfectly legal in the name of religion,cosmetics and laziness. I do consider it lazy for people to say how much cleaner it is when a washcloth or a baby wipe accomplishes the same thing. It is an necessary medical trauma and a nonreversible body altering procedure.
Stop! Before you got there. Forget your statistics as put so eloquently here:
“The problem here is that the statistical argument for an AIDS connection tends to be non-existent (or unstudied) in most population groups. Principal exceptions are sub-Saharan African societies, and (with less statistical basis) gay men “who primarily engaged in insertive anal sex.” Which is to say: groups that historically have suffered from a high incidence of medically destructive promiscuity. Among other male populations, including North American heterosexuals, there is still no proof that routine circumcision would have any impact on AIDS rates.” -Click to read more
Were it my choice I would never mutilate my baby boys genitals. It is a traumatic unnecessary, unnatural choice and one he can make later in life. I also would not do this to a baby girl but I do feel if laws are going to be made outlawing this practice it should be outlawed for both sexes or legal for both. PERIOD. I see no difference and no value in either. Worse, in some states here in america the very laws that outlaw FGM also cover grown women choosing to get their genitals pierced which is ridiculous.
Setting equal rights to the side though, know that there are many other complexities and considerations to be made when talking about FGM or MGM and both should be left up to the parents not the courts in spite of my personal opinions.
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I kinda think that is what I said. |
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Yeah, you did. But I had the feeling your emphasis was on the "don't do it" stance rather than the "don't let the parent or the government dictate whether it's done" stance. My point is that a parent should have no legal say in their child's body modification (beyond forbidding it until age 18 or until they're out on their own, whichever comes first). Neither should the child's doctor or his/her government. It's getting so if I found out they'd passed a law in the US about which hand to wipe my ass with, I wouldn't be surprised. |
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My stance is the "don't do it" stance and persoanlly I would like it to be made illegal but I am only one person. These are my emotions speaking. I feel there should be no law to enforce the practice of or lack there of. I feel that choice belongs to the parents. |
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:P Sounds like another where we'll have to agree to disagree on the areas we disagree on. |
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It is one of those things where you have to decide do parents really make choices for their children or not? |
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Well, the way I grew up was by the golden rule: he who makes the gold, makes the rules. So, yeah, in effect my folks did make decisions for me (mostly) while I lived under their roof. Now, when I was small, they definitely made the decisions. Fortunately they had good sense. |
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I made the informed decision not to circumcise my son. I felt it should be his decision and he could make it when he was old enough. I asked my sister and nieces why they had it done to their sons. "Everybody else was doing it," was their reply. Talk about non-thinkers. But yet, when I tried to get the doctors to take the hood off my clit because I could not reach an orgasm, they said they could not do it. I'm beginning to think this country is becoming brain-dead. Hello - anybody home????
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I totally agree with you. |
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I was 17 when my son was born. When they asked me about it, I didn't even know what that was. I asked my husband and he said 'yes, we want it done.' (He was circumsized, even though I had no idea what that meant at the time til he explained it to me.) Now fast forward a good bit over 20 years. My current hubby and I had a beautiful mixed race baby boy sort of land on our doorstep. (Not literally of course, but a long story to tell.) He had never been circumsized. When he was about three he developed some problems with going to the bathroom, etc.....took him to a couple of specialists, they said he needed to be circumsized. Let me tell you...It's a WHOLE lot harder on them at age 3 than it is for a newborn. He couldn't wear underwear or pants like for a week, he was so sore. And of course at that age, he was old enough to remember it...and still does, even though he's in his mid-20's. I remember my uncle deciding well into adulthood....he was undergoing surgery for something else, and asked them to do the circumcision while they had him under. He woke up in way more pain from that than from whatever they had operated on. (Can't remember what at this point.) Of course, I don't have to worry about having any babies at my age...lol But if I did, I would definitely opt to have it done when they were a newborn. |
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Why? Nothing you said here makes any sense? There are medical reasons that circumcision can up as a "cure" including but not limited to deformities but I find it odd that you would be willing to traumatize a newborn "just in case" |
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Sorry I just have to come back because by this logic all babies should get tubes in their eats and adenoid and tonsillectomies. |
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*ears |
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So they are saying that it hurts less the older he gets. Baloney! Here a baby has an incision and when he urinates, the acid is held in the diaper next to the freshly cut wound to burn and cause horrible pain. What an awful experience for a little one to come into the world. Just because he can't tell you it hurts - doesn't mean it doesn't !!! |
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I think that is the point. You can dismiss their pain if they cannot tell you about it. Also, one of the reasons, when there is no deformity that one would be told to get a circumcisions chronic UTI's thing with that is, when there is no deformity it is the failure of the parent to keep it clean and to teach their child to properly do the same. |
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I think this procedure started back in the day when men would only take baths once a year. There is absolutely no reason this day and time to not keep it clean. Parents just don't want to deal with cleaning and teaching the little guy proper care. Almost the same way they just don't want to deal with breastfeeding and cleaning real diapers. Whatever is easier, is the route they want to take - and usually at the cost of the child. |
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I think it should be a personal decision.....and the government should stay the hell out of it. |
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With ya. |
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Here's a little theory I developed on the origins of male circumcision. It began in ancient Egypt as a method for distinguishing male slaves from members (no pun intended) of the privileged class. As time went on the Jews came to consider this distinction a badge of honor and a religious sign of their exclusivity as a People.
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There is absolutely no actual historical basis to Jews ever being held as slaves.
You're welcome. |
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Not to be argumentative but Pharaoh Merneptah was quite specific as to the number of Semitic captives he brought back to Egypt in his northern military campaigns. I believe other pharaohs recorded their slave bounties as well. (Rameses?) I'll do some checking and if I'm mistaken I'll get back to you. |
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I'd like to see them. |
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In order to reply I'm going to assume that you know some things about Egyptology. I'm guessing you base your first comment on the popular notion that Egyptians did not indulge in slavery. To counter I quote J.H. Breasted as he quotes from a memorial to Ramses III: "I gave to them captains of archers and chief men of the tribes, branded and made them into slaves..." I am assuming also that you are aware that military expeditions by the score were sent against Palestine and the Jews/Israelites/Hebrews by various pharaohs. There is no question that many captives were bagged in these expeditions. You will enjoy this quote from the Amarna letters sent from a Palestinian king to Ahknaten: The king,my lord,should know that the Hapiru have risen in the lands which the god of the king, my lord, has given me, and I have beaten them. And the king my lord should know that all my brothers have left me and that I and Abdu-kheba alone are left to fight against the leader of the Hapiru. And Zurate, prince of Accho, and Indaruta, prince of Achsaph, were the ones who hastened to my help in exchange for 50 chariots of which I have now been deprived. But behold, they are fighting against me and may it please the king, my lord, to send the Janhamu so that we can wage a proper war and restore the land of the king, my lord, to its old frontiers. I'm sorry I can't afford the time to investigate deeper. |
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are you fucking kidding me? there weren't ever any black slaves either, right? |
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I wasn't arguing about blacks, you retarded skank. Go make me a sandwich. Men are talking, shut your pie hole. |
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That at least is an answer. I'll poke around later and find the source of why I said that in the first place. |
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Hi dead girl. I see your condition has taken a turn for the worse. Pity that. |
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I was agreeing with you nobullthinker. |
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/sarcasm, stupid |
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And I thank you for that. I just meant that I was sad to learn that you had died. |
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oh lol. actually my new theme song is "Living Dead Girl" so... yeah |
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I think I'd tend to support leaving it up to the kids. |
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I was never circumcized and I'm glad my mom didn't put me through that. It is cruel if you ask me. |
If there is no medical reason for it, there's no reason to do it. Parents shouldn't have the option, especially if the procedure is equally or less traumatic at 18 or later. Let the kid decide.
And regardless of what parents think of it, or what I think of it, or anyone else there doesn't need to be a LAW regarding it, period.