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On Mitt's Mormon-ism
I'm not in the habit of making comments about other people's religions, if for no other reason than I know very little about any religion other than my own. Yet, recently I have read some rather unsettling things about the Mormon religion, which of course is the belief system of the current Republican candidate for president, Mitt Romney.
I have stated on this forum that I am a Democrat. I might qualify that a little by admitting that I would probably not measure up to the true political position of most liberals....in that sense, I'm kind of in the middle. I will, without question, vote for President Obama again. I receive newsletters every morning from a number of newspapers, most notably the Washington Post and New York Times. And frequently I will scan the comments left by other readers on various articles. I am aware of the deep hatred that many Republicans have for Barak Obama which also seems to flood over onto his wife. I haven't read any insults to the Obama daughters, so I'm thinking maybe that ended with the utter disgust over Rush Limbaugh's labeling of Chelsea as the "White House dog," when she was about 13 years old. I don't know where all this fury comes from, but it seems to be a palpable response to what I believe has at least part of its roots in the fact that we have ourfirst African-American president. In other words, I believe there is a lot of racism in some of these people who seem to have a need to write the ugliest things imaginable about our president, many, if not most of them, utter and total nonsense.
However, with all this furious hysteria, I read very few comments supporting Mitt Romney. But one thing that has sort of troubled me in the last week or two is having read some pretty bizarre things about Mr. Romney on various internet pages. One that struck me as someone's imagination hard at work went something like this: "Mitt Romney believes that when he dies he will become a god, that he will be given his own planet where he will rule over millions of spirit babies."
Now come on! I mean, I am pretty much on the fence about matters such as life after death, reincarnation and such, and although I've read a few books on things supernatural, a claim that has Mitt Romney morphing into a god after his physical death strikes me as rather twisted.
Well, today I went on my weekly foray in a local bookstore, not looking for anything in particular, and although I say I'm just browsing, I seldom come home without a new book or two. Today I... (and this was purely coincidental because I'd not only never heard of this book I'm about to name, I never had much interest in the topic)...in prowling through the shelves I ran across a book titled "The God Makers: A Shocking Expose' of What the Mormon Church REALLY Believes." The authors are listed as Ed Decker & Dave Hunt, . and the copyright date is 1984, so it seems pretty unlikely this book was written with Mitt Romney in mind.
I've so far read only a couple of chapters, both of which are mostly introductions, but t took less than five minutes of leafing through the book to confirm that this business of Mormon men becoming gods with their own planets is actually a teaching of the Mormon church. Evidently, a movie....probably a documentary...has been made based on the book. The reseach for this book was done by a Denver Post staff writer, John Farrell, and Jim Richardson who is a photographer for the Post.
I'm not sure how much of this book I will read; probably not much. Since I have no intentions of voting for Romney, nor do I plan to launch even a tiny campaign to try to convince others not to vote for him.
There was a time, back in 1999, when I was quite vocal in my belief that the voters would never put George Bush, Jr. in the presidency. I was wrong. Twice. So I won't make that assertion this time, although I do not believe he there is much chance he is going to win the election. But from the things I've read online in the past week or two, and now the little bit I've read in the book I bought today, my conclusion is that Mitt Romney is potentially a very dangerous man.
When I was a child there were two well-dressed young men on bicycles who used to stop at our house once a week to talk to my mother about the Mormon religion. In truth, I didn't pay a lot of attention to the debate, although from my usual perch in the porch swing with an occasional peek over whatever book I might have been reading at the time, it was clear that two smooth-cheeked young Mormon fellows dropping in to convert a hard-core middle-aged Methodist lady to Mormonism, a complete exercise in futility.
But let me say, when it comes to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir belting out "The Battle Hymn of the Republic," there's absolutely none better.
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It's OK, Charles. I'm not running in a popularity contest here. You don't need to agree with me, and I don't need to agree with you. Be well. |
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Before you fall into believing anything in this book, I suggest you check out the authors. This seems to be the church Hunt belongs to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Brethren http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Hunt_(Christian_apologist) Information on Ed Decker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Decker http://www.lightplanet.com/response/decker.htm Now haven given you those...you seem to believe what you read....Obama went to Wrights' church for 20 years and never heard Wright say God Damn America...so I believe that for one minute? No... |
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I do my own research, thank you. But as long as you suggested some reading for me, I'll post a URL which is part of the research I have conducted. It takes some time to watch this whole video, and if you don't have that much interest in it, that's up to you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GF_SxbPLb0&feature=related The title of the video is "DNA and the Book of Mormon. I would suggest that when the very foundation of your house crumbles, the house will not stand for long. Nuff said! |
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I will watch it but you see I do know a bit more about the Mormon faith than you might think. I have a Book of Mormon on my desk right now. Am I Mormon? No, but I have read and explored the book for years to see what they actually believe. Our house IS crumbling under the weight of Obamahood and his thugs. |
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Mormonism is crazy enough without making outlandish claims like believing in deification after death. I haven't heard that one before. Read Mark Twain's discourse on The Book of Mormon in Roughing It. Not only is he pointedly accurate, he is hysterically funny, too. If you read both the Post and the Times, it seems to me you are getting both a conservative (the Post, which still doesn't understand Keynesian economics) and a liberal (Times) point of view. I have only one vote. It will not go to the Republicans. I call myself a liberal, but these days true middle ground is painted as communist so the label is all but useless. I couldn't care less about someone's religious persuasion so long as it is kept to themselves as a personal matter. |
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Brycecoddnormal -- I'll make a point of reading Twain's thoughts thoughts on Mormonism, if only for the entertainment. I've howled my way through several of his essays, and he's one of my favorites. |
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He's been one of my favorites for a long time, now. I know The Adventures of Tom Saywer and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn are labelled as "childrens literature," but they are far greater than mere children's stories. |
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Having spoken to Mormons, in fact having grown up with a Mormon best friend, yes, this is all completely true. They don't talk about it much because they know how outsiders will react. That said, every religion has beliefs which, when seen from the outside, look completely absurd. Christianity is taken seriously, yet it believes in Zombies and ritual cannibalism. Don't say that out loud or you'll offend them. You see, it's all in the wording. The problem with Mormonism, in my opinion, is not the crazy beliefs. Not even that God gave Joseph Smith magic glasses to read his instructions. Nor even that most of the dogma for their church was made up from Masonic stuff. No. The problem is the hypocrisy. Temple Mormons are an elite. Other Mormons (and the dreaded non-Mormons) may not participate in temple events. So, for example, if your daughter becomes a temple Mormon, and you don't, you can't attend her wedding. Yep. So much for them being "all about family". I could go on at least about temple weddings, having spoken forst-hand to a girl who went through one, but I expect it'll be in your book. Does it matter that Mitt is a Mormon and wants to be president? Actually, no. Because he's already demonstrated by his words and behaviour that he has none of the ethics that good Mormons have. And this is far more worrying than the weird beliefs. I support no party. I look at the issues, and the character of the candidates. His character? I wouldn't employ him to walk my dog. |
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I'm probably not understanding a part of your post. Tell me you didn't say that Christianity believes in Zombies and ritual cannibalism. The only way that Mitt Romney's religion would matter in the unlikely event that he will become president next January would be to what extent he might make decisions based on Mormonism. In 1959-60, part of the country was in a tailspin over a Catholic running for, and being elected to the presidency. Kennedy won, and the Pope stayed in Rome. Republicans and Tea Party folks have tried to convince the country that Obama is a Muslim whose religion is Islam. These are the people who usually refer to the president as Barry Hussein Obama, a clear effort to link him to the middle-east. Even Jimmy Carter's religion was an issue in some circles since it was believed some that his decisions, especially regarding international affairs, were dictated by his evangelical religion. So, in my view, if the religious practices and beliefs are an issue for one candidate, regardless of which party they represent, they are an issue for all of them. From everything I've read, and learned from people who have more knowledge of Mormonism than I, the Mormon religion is a very controlling belief-system. Any attempt by any church to control any part of the country or any section of its people, is at cross-sections with our Constitution. You say you wouldn't employ Romney to walk your dog. Ah, but would you let him put your dog in a cage atop your car and drive from the east coast to the west? :-)
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"The only way that Mitt Romney's religion would matter in the unlikely event that he will become president next January would be to what extent he might make decisions based on Mormonism. " Yes, but I don't think his faith is his priority. I think money is. Oh gosh, I could go on at length on this topic. Some other time. Let me concentrate on the other bit. |
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"I'm probably not understanding a part of your post. Tell me you didn't say that Christianity believes in Zombies and ritual cannibalism." The point I was trying to make there is about perception. Because we have grown up in a society where Christianity is familiar (mainstream), and given a great deal of respect, we tend to overlook some of its weirder aspects. But if it was suddenly new on the scene, the resurrection would look like remind you of zombie stories, and the holy communion would make you think of ritual cannibalism. In fact about a decade ago, some Buddhists said just this on a forum I was a member of, and were roundly chastised for their remarks. What happens is that people see aspects of other religions as weird, while they see aspects of their own as meaningful symbolism or whatever. It's an irregular verb: I'm interesting You're eccentric He's nuts |
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"Tea Party folks have tried to convince the country that Obama is a Muslim whose religion is Islam. " I never understood that. It strikes me as completely ridiculous. I mean, I'm used to dirt-slinging and lies in politics but that one came straight out of left field. Bizarre. |
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Eccentric, eh wot? My dictionary defines that as "flaky," a "geek," and an "oddball." Should I be offended? |
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LOL no, it's just an example of how we perceive things, you see. When we look at ourselves we see something out of the ordinary, but of course it's perfectly OK, a good thing in fact. When we perceive others we like/know we see them as strange, but in a positive way, when we perceive strangers, we do it in a more negative way. We are conditioned to do this, right from birth. In our minds are all these irregular verbs that we use. Another one might be: I'm generous You're decadent He wastes Or another one might be I'm relaxed You're goofing off He's a lazy arse And so on. |
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Isn't it really called one with God? as in alot of Christians believe in the rapture. Catholics believe in purgatory. We all believe in heaven and hell. personally I do not care if he believes he is going to live on another planet. Haven't you watched the movie Contact? |
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I think I watched "Contact" a long time ago. Wasn't that a film with Jodie Foster? I just don't remember much about it other than that it was a Science Fiction flick. By the by, your mother is a wise woman. |
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My mother always said believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. |
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If you were a Republican, would you care about Romney's beliefs? Websites don't always bring out the facts. There is usually a great amount of spin given to the information presented. Yes, there are a lot of Obama haters out there. However, I'm not one of them. I like Obama, what I don't like is the Democratic philosophy. I want small government and a balanced budget. One of my favorite Presidents is Bill Clinton. He balanced the budget. I don't think Democrats have anything to worry about as that flip-flopping idiot Romney won't beat Omana. For me, I don't know who to vote for right now. Will watch the debates and then decide. |
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I would care about the beliefs of anyone who was running for the highest office in the land. Don't you think it's interesting how the two presidents of our time who were involved in misbehavior, Dick Nixon and Bill Clinton, became thought of as "Elder Statesmen" some years after they left office? Time evidently does heal all (or at least some) wounds. I came, by the way, from a Republican home. My dad was a rabid Republican and his very favorite president was Dwight D. Eisenhower. You may or may not know that the Republican slogan for Eisenhower was "I Like Ike." After my dad passed away in 1973, although I was old enough to know better than to do this, I took his old pocket knife and went out to the little country cemetery where he is buried and carved "He really liked Ike" on a tree near his grave, and included a carved arrow pointing at the grave. Many years later, that old carving is still visible if one knows where to look. I have never hated Republicans, and have no reason to hate Mormons. I just don't agree with what they believe, or appear to believe. |
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"I have never hated Republicans, and have no reason to hate Mormons. I just don't agree with what they believe, or appear to believe." That's where I stand too. I don't hate anyone. And the old Republicans seemed decent enough. It's this latest generation I can't seem to find common ground with. |
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I do not dislike him personally, I did not dislike Bush either, but I did not vote for either of them because I did n to like their agendas. They are both likeable guys, each side should remember that likeableity is not presidential, it is in a quality to go have a drink with, not be leader of our country |
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I enjoyed reading your post, thanks for sharing your thoughtful thoughts. I was like you regarding w's chances of being president, but the foolishnes of the voters has no limits...... hopefully they have learned their lesson this time. |
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I wish I was as sanguine about that. I hope you are correct. I didn't think it was possible to get more conservative - and still be politically viable - than the first Bush presidency. Boy, was I wrong about that. |
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You are not alone, but we have no choice but hope ...., i believe that truth and goddness alwya prevail at the end, hopefully that is not too far in the future. keep the faith as they say... :-) |
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Thank you for your thoughts. I hope you are right. |
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I have another little anecdote about Mormon missionaries, while I'm here. I had a friend years ago, whose property was surrounded by several thousand acres of orchard and pasture. The lane to her house was very long indeed, on foot it took about 20 minutes, and it was farm-gated to keep the sheep in. The gate was padlocked to prevent it from being "forgotten" to be closed, but it was easily climbed over by visitors. So when the two young Mormons arrived, they decided against lifting their bikes over the gate, climbed over and did the long trek. She saw them coming. When they arrived at the house my friend was hanging out laundry, and told them she was too busy to talk to them, so they offered to help her with her work. After they'd hung out all the laundry she showed them the rest of the work to be done. It including chopping logs, bottling fruit, cleaning out the eavestroughs, and mowing the (extensive) lawns, with a push mower. She said they ran all the way back up the lane in about 3 minutes flat. |
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That would probably be enough to send most people scurrying down the lane and over the fence. Methinks that would work on in-laws too....agreed? |
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Worth a try:) |
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Its true we beleive in Eternal Progression else the "term" damnation would have no weight. But I am amused at how the concept is presented. There is a huge time period before Mitt would get his own Planet as sacreligiously presented. Besides everything is conditional on faithfulness and obedience. For most of us,,lets say it wont happen as soon as we die. Give about an additional 1000 years for the millenial period to take place, a final Judgement and resurrection. So to state that when he dies is a pretty far stretch. The other amusing part of this is that the assumption that we become equal to God which is as well false. Its a comparative statement to where God is today but never equal to him. Which essentially means the opposite of Damnation to the reality of Eternal Progression. Now I as well as other Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-saints can hardly expect anyone to be converted over this doctrine. As a metter of fact if someone were to read this and demand to be baptised, would certainly create the doubt of sincerity. Converts are created by the reading of the Book of Mormon and then praying to ask the Lord to verify it as a true scripture. Most people wont do this because they have preconceived comittment that there can only be one scripture that God has revealed to only one group of people ever to have lived on earth namely the Jews despite Jesus blantantly stated that he had other sheep of his fold. They claim Joseph Smith wrote a phoney book. But those that have the courage to read the Book of Mormon and put it to the test of prayer,,,well they become members and learn the precious truths and what the truth really is about "Eternal Progression" |
You read the Washington Post and the NY Times, and will surely vote for Obama. From those statements, I have no reason to care what you think of Romney. And the Denver Post? And these liberal rags are seemingly quickly accepted as true? We are all entitled to our opinions. I'm afraid that ours are worlds apart. Charles