thanks for your well thought out response Joey, as always a pleasure to read

why aren't they spending their time finding all the muslims who have come here from saudi arabia and other middle eastern countries for one reason and then just vanished? do you think spending time arresting the folks who do agricultural work is a better way to spend law enforcement's time? yeah, this makes a lot of sense. i thought you guys wanted less government, not more. cops can now stop anyone for anything in arizona. isn't that guilty until provden innocent?

if they did this in DC all of Congress would be in prison or else they'd have to fire the folks who are nannies, housecleaners, and keep their yards up, huh?

I have no clue what to do Brian. What will they do after they arrest these illegals?  What I think is a shame is that this has gone on for decades...long enough for some of these families to have children who are now in high school. And NOW...after over 20 MILLION of them are here...they decide to do something about it. It's just a total mess to me. I wonder how this law will be carried out. Who will they target and on what basis will they arrest people until they can prove they are innocent. It is BEYOND my comprehension that here we are, all these years after 9/11, and our borders are just as open as they were on that fateful day. Bush did NOTHING in the two terms after that horrible attack to shut the border between the US and Mexico, and until they do something about that, it won't matter how many people they arrest and send home (I don't want to support them in our prisons), they'll just turn around and come right back in won't they?

The only ranchers that I have heard of that were killed were killed by white people who didn't like the fact that the ranchers were giving food and water to hungry women and children who, yes, were coming in from Mexico. Has any one been tried in these crimes, no, not hat I've seen. I've only seen the white people blame the Mexicans for doing it. It's bullshit Brian.

your right on all counts Cat. Let me also ask, what does one have to do to prove that they are indeed a citizen or here legally? What proof do they have to offer up, a green card? That works if your a non resident alien, but what does a citizen who happens to be a Mexican have to show? What happens then?

it is because of a failure at the Federal level to enact something, anything, to seal up the borders, but in all actuality all we've done is post a sign at the boarder that says stay out, and then anther 50 yards in that says, welcome, we'll give you jobs. I agree whole heartedly that we need to do something to stop it, and to cure the problem of what to do with those already here, but they way this thing was written will end up bankrupting Arizona from law suits, it was not the right thing to do. No the way it's been done. I have no correct answer, thats the problem, no one does. There has to be a way to do something that doesn't treat them as less than humans.

again, this doesn't even begin to answer why no one has been arrested for killing the ranchers who helped them. 

me? lol, people like me don't go to jail joey. You must have me confused with one of your teabagger buddies

yep, thats it joey, you got me. I sold a bag to my best friend a police chief, he narked me out. I've learned my lesson now. 

Your such an idiot joey, lmao.

Is this logical too. Those for this bill are sending death threats to those against it. I stand behind what I have been saying about todays McVeigh republicans and the racism behind them...

According to this blog post at the Arizona Daily Star, Pueblo Politics: Grijalva closes office because of death threats , Raul Grijalva is ordering his local offices in Tucson and Yuma closed, because of "multiple death threats and threats of violence."

Congressman Grijalva recently called for a boycott of Arizona in protest of the Arizona Senate Bill 1070. This is the kind of reaction he is getting.

Grijalva staffer Ruben Reyes said the office has been flooded with calls all week about Senate Bill 1070. About 25 percent are "very racist" in nature, Reyes said, characterizing some as "telling that tortilla-eating wetback to go back to Mexico."

He said the staff feels "very intimidated" by the calls from this morning.

this is all a joke right? Yur just kidding, right? How about the canadians who come across? Why not profile for anyone who ends a sentence with "A". As in, hey, I'm a Canadian A.

it will never work, people will die. this really isn't thought thru by you very well, it couldn't possibly have been.

totally off point..... anecdotal, diversionary BS --that may be BS, may be exergerated, may be manufactured--who knows.  We only know that more and more Dems are claiming unprovable crap like this from a congressman who openly favors these lawbreakers.

if people are in the USA ILLEGALLY, they should be rounded up and deported.  That is THE point--the only point when we have very high unemployment and illegals are taking the jobs. 

FACT:  Profiling has been and continues to be a constant in criminal investigations.  Why?  Because it is only reasonable and logical--the idea is to catch the lawbreakers, NOT to follow progressive PC rules.  If all witnesses say a black man robbed a bank, law enforcement officers do not interview white women because it's PC--they look for a black man.  Why?  Because it makes sense.  The VAST majority of ILLEGAL aliens in the USA are hispanic    PERIOD--case closed.  Round up the illegals and deport them. 

So you think it is ok then to be blatantly racist to hispanics and demand their papers because you believe more illegal immigrants are mexican. Shall we then pat down every white man in a business suit, since most of them turn out to be wall street criminals too. Same logic..or lack thereof.

Might be off this point, but it is on one I have been saying now for months, doesn't it?

Republicans have no respect for democracy, or the constitution. Thus, this ignorance that won't make it past the first judge. Betcha!

LD,

It's simply a reiteration of the Federal law already in existance . Arizona is almost bankrupt from coddling illegals. Arizona had to take that step because the Fed is not doing their job. People are being murdered, tortured and kidnapped along the border. Citizens still do have rights in this country.

No, it is not. Immigration is a federal responsibility, not the state.

Its called the constitution, read it sometime.

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship. Again, the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution, it is not open to private interpretation. But it does appear that while any person in the US should enjoy basic rights that any person anywhere should have (Declaration), certain Privileges and Immunities seem to be reserved for citizens. This seems reasonable; the United States is a Sovereign State, and has the right and power (given by the People) to establish laws and enforce the rule of law . Privileges and Immunities of citizenship are not (and should not be) simply extended to anyone who crosses our borders . No nation on earth does that.

Unfortunately, our national security and the reality of our world do not allow for such an idealistic planet where the Bill of Rights applies to everyone.

Since the Fed is not enforcing illegal immigration laws, the state of Arizona is forced to pass their own law. The Fed can't interfere.

Here's the law dealing with illegals, AND aiding and abetting them.

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/AidAbetUnlawfulSec8USC1324.html

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

They only apply after being harrassed for looking or driving while hispanic, and having been asked for your "papers", right. 29% of Arizona is hispanic, so keep shooting yourselves in the foot.

And like I said, wait, you will see it get thrown out as unconstitutional. Last time I said that, it was the defund-Acorn nonesense that was unconstitutional due to the "no bills of Attainer" being allowed. I was right.

Betcha....

Oh...and how is ACORN doing these days?

Changing their name and going into hiding.

They are proof positive, that the right will lie to get their way.

there is nothing "racist" about inforcing US laws.  This issue isn't about racism as liberals would love folks to believe--it's purely a leftist PC-obsessive issue of ignoring United States laws.  Period.

how true, AJay, how true.  This Administration as well as the Bush Administration has simply truned its back on inforcing Immigration laws.  Hell, Obama doesn't even want to buikd the fence the law called for--think a "virtual fence" whatever the hell that is will keep these criminals out.  This is a pathetic PC joke.  Shameful--Go Arizonia--enforce the laws!

There is NOTHING illogical about enforcing the US laws.  If they are here illegally, they should be found and deported.  Simple as that--it's not a PC issue--it's a legal issue--deport them.

No, it is about not wanting people to be subjected to unnecessary searches. Now people can be checked for being brown. I agree with the post I put at the bottom, EVERY hispanic, legal or not, should refuse to do business in Arizona, and should refuse to carry an ID. Especially the legal citizens. Others, should get good tans, and refuse to carry and ID and wear something ethnic every day. Bombard these bastards and destroy their system till they have to scrap it.

I am white... So that would be some unusual self loathing...

The laws shouldn't single out specific races for inspection. This will fail, wait and see.

Great!  Maybe every illegal "hispanic" will take your advice and move back to Mexico . . .  Problem solved!  If they are illegal--deport their asses!  Opps, that must have sounded quite non-PC of me. 

as long as they find and deport a fedw million before it fails --that's ok by me!  Illegal alien--you're out!  It's the law . . . PC or not--it's the law!

Grandfather was native American, that makes me about 1/4. I don't know as much about it all as I should.

It will get challenged very, very quickly in court.

This isn't about PC or not. It is about Racist or not, or feeling that "brown people" have the same rights to privacy and not being harrassed as does any other citizen.

Hope the Republicans weren't counting on much Latino support for the coming elections. As I have said before, shooting yourselves in the foot. Either by spotlighting your wing-nut violent fringe, or by supporting racial profiling and showing your true opinions on racial equality under the law.

Good luck with that.

I get in enough trouble without tackling that too...LOL

No, I tried the latest republican health proposal, checkups for chickens, and my Doc is a vegitarian. Oh the horror...

Stop giving them reason to come here. Painfully go after any employer who dares hire undocumented workers, to the point they wouldn't even conceive the possibility. Change our trade policies that cripple their economies and allow our corporations to take advantage of them in their own nations. I would call that a good start.

How do you feel about national ID cards?

the sheriff down there is under federal investigation, he's no hero, he's a freaking wacko!

we need the workers, theres no doubt about that. maybe Brian would like to go work the strawberry fields so he can have a few on his Post toasties in the morning. this was tried in Virginia, it failed miserably.

A gay liberal atheist is a hard sell in the bluest of states....

I'm more the Rove behind the scenes kinda guy...

so your saying, that your actually for bigger government when it suits you and less the rest of the time. i want no chip in me, and i don't want to have a national id card either, it's big brother at it's best. You should think about what your saying or suggesting.

I say again, enforcing our nations immigration laws has ZERO to do with "racism"--enforcing our laws and deporting illegals is by no measure "racism."  And you well know this is most certainly a PC issue for  liberal Dems who have guilt feelings about being born Americans--taking a pro-lawbreaker stance on behalf of "brown people" allows liberals to mitigate their irrational guilty feelings.

 Republicans have never counted on or wanted illegal aliens (hispanic or otherwise) as voters for either party.  No, that's the democrats, ACORN, and the Service Employees Union knowingly & willingly recruiting illegals to vote for Obama and Dems.

you know, i try and follow your logic and can never quiet get it. This isn't a PC issue, this is a constitutional issue. I'm all for finding a way to keep the illegal immigrants out until they can find a proper way in, but this isn't it. You are so far up the Republican Rectum you can't even get fresh air. And yes, Republicans have counted on illegals for labor and house keeps and gardeners, you cannot deny this and yes, the do vote too. But here's the rub, all the legal ones aren't going to vote republican this time bro.

Cracker jack psychology....how fun!

Acorn did nothing illegal, but the right did lie about it until they went under, ethics be damned (as usual, Republicans have no love for democracy or working government, they just try do destroy it every time...)

No, with the current socialist ideology-driven president and this crop of Obama-fawning Dems it is ALWAYS about political correctness--it drives their every thought and moved. 

But, I'll cede you and the Dems ALL LEGAL hispanic votes if you can guarantee me 12 MILLION illegal hispanics will be deported, as they damn well should be . . . under existing US laws. That tradeoff would certainly be worth not gaining a handfull of republican seats this fall

Did you REALLY state "Acorn did nothing illegal"???  For an apparently intelligent (albeit PC-dillusional) individual, you really do have an ability to get your head buried deep into the ideological sand.  Hell, Acorn was caught red-handed aiding and abetting tax fraud--you saw the tapes just as I did.  Did I mention you are dillusional?  Yep, thought I did.  sad. 

You mean the fake pimp story that was edited to hell and back, that the ACORN employees called the police on...

What happened to that guy...Oh yes...Jail.

The Pimp tape Hoax...With the Unedited tapes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLn4Jz9gN2w

O'Keff's history of Race Baiting .

ACORN: No wrongdoing found in congressional investigation over the past 5 years.

Keep trying, someone might believe you...

12 million hispanics, around $5000 to detain, process, transfer and deport each one...What is the math on that...

Great Idea while crawling out of a recession...

Yes Brian, I'm sure there are many. I'm also sure we may even agree on a few to be cut. See, in the name of "keeping us safe", you are willing to give up your freedoms, how is that patriotic? See I believe that is nothing more than rolling over and letting them do what ever they want to us. Thats big government, big brother and thats ok with you, but in the next breath you would say that you want smaller government. I Me Mine is all I ever hear from all of you, it gets very annoying. It's not about whats best for the country, I's about whats best for ME. Screw everyone else. Well, good for you. I myself would rather think about the entire picture for the majority of the people, not just whats best for me. You know, when you die, it doesn't matter what you have or had, your still fricken dead. We weren't put on this earth to see how rich we could get, or how big a car we could own, we were put here to help each other. I think so many of you forget that.

Absolutely!  Open the Treasury--write the checks--deport their asses! 

The way these wild-spending democrats have blown the federal budget and The National Debt off the graph, conservatives would consided a few BILLION a bargain to get rid of the festering fiscal/social cancer illegal aliens represent to our economy and the real America we've loved.

Yep, the objective of the Obama-backed Acorn criminals shown in those tapes was crystal clear--advocating/encouraging tax fraud, pure and simple.  Any fool could see that!  Yes, we're talking about the same damning stories/clips that led to congress withholding all funds from the corrupt criminal enterprise formerly know as Acorn ( a move upheld by federal courts, by the way).  But, the Acron thugs have simply renamed their storefront Criminals-R-Us entities around the country--roaches supported by a socialist president are indeed hard to kill. 

my gawd eky, this was too funny

oops eky, that would be the one about "Doc is a vegitarian. Oh the horror..."

LOL, I was wondering which part, that was a LONG discussion thread..LOL.

Yes and a great one I might add.  I love how you manage to inject a bit of humor once in a while in an attempt to bring things back to reality.

Logic is that illegal aliens should be deported!  Period.

Eject the browns. That is what you mean.

no, eject ANY illegal aliens.  Period!  Brown, green, purple, white, pink (that's for you guys) LOL!  If they are here illegally--deport them.

you know, over the last few days, I've given this subject a lot of thought. And your just plain wrong, your plan has no logic what so ever. For a man you likes to tell every one what a brilliant mind he has you really skipped the what needs to be done first, and this bill doesn't address it what so ever.  Logic you tell you to STOP them from coming in in the first place, seal the boarder. This law does  nothing to prevent the problem at all. Secondly, it they are already here, working, paying rent buying things, why not figure out how to make them legal instead of costly court proceedings and internment. For a self professed genius, you sure miss the big picture. Maybe your standing to high on your pedestal.

Hmmm . . . ?  You call me "arrogant" because of life accomplishments I  openly acknowleged in my bio--your blog bio lists zero accomplishments.  Curious how you repeatedly mention my published novels--we'd like to see a listing of works you've written.  You say, I "like to tell everyone what a brilliant mind (I) have."  I've never done so--please site actual examples where I've ever said such a thing.  And lastly, your remark about me standing "too high on (my) pedestal" . . . Well, I suspect many might see your snide protestations as coming from a jealous, insecure man with no accomplishments to enumerate.  You're a sad case, Charlie. 

By the way, we agree on the need to close our borders to illegal aliens.  But the concept of welcoming the law-breakers to stay on our soil, while oh so very PC, is fiscal madness.  They are destroying our hospital systems, school systems, and have brought horrid, expensive crime to the USA.  Deport them all!!! 

you really do crack me up, so freaking what you wrote a couple of books? Big deal, it means nothing to me, there are others here who have written more than you and don't go around trying to prove what a brilliant mind they are, to me your a phony. Me, as for being insecure, I'm laughing my ass off. And your still missing the point, if those "millions" were tax payers, how would that over tax the system? Your a racial bigot too, I can see that now. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it, bro. Arrogance, has nothing to do with "lifes accomplishments" either, arrogance is as the rest of us know, like an illness that never goes away and repels people, kinda like a STD.

Charlie, Charlie . . . you just don't get it; and I haven't the time or inclination to hand hold you through anymore tedious explanations.  But, my man, your insecurities are not at all difficult to see.  What you see as "arrogance" is simply strong self-confidence on my part, based on an abundance of past accomplishments.  So, have a good life Charlie.  Good bye. 

rotflmao, it's called arrogance my right wing fringe friend

Of course, republicans by majority are racists, and they love this stuff, they threaten to kill, to do this stuff.

OOps, didn't mean for that to come out so messy, sorry charlie...LOL

Legal latinos should refuse to carry ID, and then bring a lawsuit for discrimination immediately. There are less racist ways to do this. Go after the employers who hire them.

The fence is stupid, they were meant to be broken or climbed, and will be faster than your head can say taco.

the fence will never be built, its to reminiscence of the Berlin wall. These Idiots think this will work, lol. They are more nuts than I ever gave them credit for. of course they are raising hell in Arizona and i expect it to spread even further into other states. This is the most stupid thing I have seen any Politician do in a long time, well for two days sense she signed the bill saying Obama has to show his birth cert to be on the ballot in Arizona, lol in fact lmao.

Insurrection, hate and discontent? Wow, were those the blackboard words of the day on Becks show?! Impressive, but not what I said at any juncture...

Beck?

I don't know about YOU, but I was born here.

All the way back 15 or more generations, my family are hardly immigrants. In fact, at least 5 or more relatives fought in the Revolutionary War.

Actually, we fought in all the wars to defend this country.

I think 230 years qualifies us as "residents", not immigrants.

I was born here too, Anchor baby Michelle Malkin was born here too. Guess What...There are no "degrees" of American.

This law will make Arizona less safe, no immigrants, legal or not, will go to authorities or provide information, choosing to avoid them instead.

P.S. How does one "prove" citizenship? Passports and Visas may not be adequate. There are LOTS of factors at play .

Eky,

 It's just cops doing their jobs.

I would rather have them ejecting illegals than eating donuts.....

You should want them preventing crime, not harrassing anyone lookin "ferrin"

Oh come on now, Eky. You know better than that.

Quit "projecting" and get real. The cops have been told no racial profiling. The whole country heard it out of the Governor's mouth. Since the whole nation will be watching, I think they will be ultra careful.

Have you taken note of the latest violence along the border?

MURDER, INC., right across the border.

The problem is and has been for the last decade, a huge increase in crime and deaths.

Over 20,000 in Mexico in just the last 6 years.

It's spilling over to our country. The murder of the rancher has really pissed Americans off in the border states. Can't say as I blame them.

So again, without racial profiling, what does one look for to determine someone is illegal? Only an idiot, thinks there will be no racial profiling come from this.

Problem has been there a while, it has, really escelated since NAFTA. Coincidence or connections?

Look deeper.

These are local cops.

They know who does and doesn't belong. They will develop proper procedure. Have faith in the system, Eky.

If we didn't have the cops (who BTW are the good guys) we would have chaos.

Illegals are creating chaos.

How do suppose they "look" for criminals? They observe.

Take a law enforcement class. I did.

Yep, local boys like Sheriff Joe, who I think has a lost twin of the same name here on blogster.

I tease our tempermental troll in tights.

Really bad for the latino vote right before an election. Almost as bad as the tea party terrorists every other day. November isn't going to be the slam dunk you think, because the fringes have control, that turns everyone off.

This will be challenged and found unconstitutional. Fine the employers, it works. Encourage a better economy in their nation with our trade policies, not abusing and exploiting them like we do now, devistating their economy and sending them into either crime or heaven forbid...Arizona or Texas.

Truckers Boycotting Arizona Over Law.

American Immigration Lawyers Association to Boycott Arizona.

Why on earth would you worry about what the illegals think about the law?

Because the residents in Arizona, you know, the AMERICAN CITIZENS, are the ones who have demanded this law.

That includes the legal citizens of Mexican descent. They want law and order and are sick of the illegals, too.

Why do you presume to think for the people of Arizona?

Nobody exploits illegals like liberals do. Botox Nancy exploits them all the time. So does her hubby.

Illegals need to leave and come back in the front door.

And go figure...the scumbag lawyers. Why am I not surprised?

Who is the illegals I cited. There are "legal" immigrants, ya know.

Bunch of dumb ass racist republicans wanted this law, Latinos know that. Not just in Arizona either. Smooth, real smooth...

Someone needs to think for Arizona, if this is the best they can do.

And lets not forget it was a republican administration building this wall you guys want, with contractors using illegal aliens. What have republicans done for this issue, besides harrassing people for being brown or not speaking the english?

Eky,

Once again you resort to the name-calling.

Face it. You're wrong.

Mexico’s drug war is closing in on becoming Obama’s “Iraq”; a war not so much of choice as one that is integral to our national security.

This is not an exaggeration. In December, Four-Star general (ret.) Barry McCaffrey and former national drug czar said that Mexico is on the verge of becoming a narco-state. An Adjunct Professor of International Affairs at West Point, McCaffrey released a report that predicted Mexico will be in control of the narco gangs within a decade. “Chronic drug consumption in Mexico has doubled since 2002 as has cocaine use, while U.S. cocaine consumption has dropped by 70% in the past two decades. An estimated 5% of the Mexican population now consumes illegal drugs.”

Fully 90% of all U.S. cocaine use transits through Mexico and it is also a dominant source of methamphetamine production for the U.S. market.

All this is occurring while Speaker Pelosi is encouraging illegal immigration and denouncing enforcement of our laws to prevent it.

No one is encouraging illegal immigration for one, and for two, Wrong about what, that republicans pushed this? They did! That it's racist? It is! That it will be found unconstitutional. It will. Wait and see.

racist, yadda yadda yadda racist yadda yadda yadda.

Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!

You're goofy!

This bill will end up bankrupting Arizona from the law suits alone. The Republicans need the Hispanic vote to win elections there too, and this will pretty much seal the fate of the Republican leadership there in the next few months, This entire thing was a huge mistake on their part. The only good thing that could possibly come from it will be that the Feds get off their asses and do something about Illegal immigration, which they have not done in years, I won't call this a Bush thing cause it goes back even further, it goes back to about Nixon and Reagan, no one has enforced it and no one really wants to try. But, now the hand has been played ans Obama WILL do something, of course there will be those that say what ever he does will be the wrong thing and thats why it hasn't been done before, it's a prickly situation at best. You last line says it all, it's immoral and unnecessary. thanks for your well thought out input on this.

3 things...

1. you said..."But this thing is still going to end up in Civil Court with lots of Lawsuits because of sec 13-2319, sec 13-1509,sec 13-2928 and sec 28-3511 all which in one way or the other will violate someones rights."

Would those be their constitutional rights..

2. IMHO, this should be the OPPOSITE direction, "small, less intrusive government" decrying conservatives would want to go, if they really mean it at all. But it seems their desire to deport exceeds their political philosophies.

3. Kudos to well thought out responses, especially from republicans..

Yes eky....their Constitutional rights!!!

If it does bankrupt them, I wonder if they will be looking towards the Gov't for assistance?  Wouldn't surprise me...

good point, you know they will. All this from the people who want less government in their lives, rotflmfao 

Then shouldn't they try to solve the problem in a less racist fashion than harrassing those that "look illegal" whatever that means.

Arizona GOP just gave Democrats a chunk of the latino vote in November...

I agree. I don't think the program will work. But, I don't think that those supporting it are doing so for racist reasons.

Then tell me what makes someone "look illegal".

Predominately race. But, I don't think that they want immigration reform because they dislike Mexicans. I think they want reform because they feel that illegal aliens are overtaxing these system (of any race, but the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants are coming from the south).

The fact that they would profile Mexicans is a practical matter of law enforcement. Police do it all the time. If the witnesses describe a six-foot man, the police don't round up four-foot women.

But, if you consider that racism, then the policy is racist.

Amy, I'm not say that people who want to enforce immigration laws are racist at all, I'm saying that this particular bill opens the door to racism, that cannot be denied, it will have to promote racial profiling at the very least. The can of worms opened by this bill will affect every last one of us in the long run, if by nothing less than having to have a National, or Federal ID card with all your lifes info in a little magnetic strip on the back. Do you want that? I don't.

I think the policy very well may cause more problems than it solves. But, it is a state government trying to fix a problem caused by an inept federal government.

And, I do want a national ID card. I'm a proud American with nothing to hide. I've got a thousand other forms of ID... a little standardization would actually be welcome. Maybe it would make my wallet a little thinner!

lol, it may at that.

It is, and the courts will agree it is racist or discriminatory. Latino and hispanics will leave the GOP, they are 30% of Arizona. They will avoid the police, crazed tea-baggers will bring lawsuits (also part of this bill) against the counties for "not doing enough" (AKA, "I seen uh feriner tuhday" or "They weren't talkin Amerikin") and bankrupt the counties.

Bad move all around, says alot for the reasoning abilities of the ones who support it IMO.

army, I agree. Would this be called a racial issue if it were in fact Canada causing all these illegal immigration issues?  NO, simply because the fact is, the majority of Canadians are white.  The fact also exists that those illegally here from Mexico happen to be predominately brown.  Knowing these facts than how can anyone justify calling this a racial issue or racial profiling.  It is what it is; thousands of Mexico's brown skinned citizens are illegally flooding Arizona and our country.  How exactly does anyone seek them out without appearing to be singling out a race? 

I'm not saying I'm for this bill, yet something certainly has to be done and hasn't been till the State stepped up to the plate.  What needs/must be done that serves to eliminate this huge problem is the big question.  The firestorm of reaction to 'something vs. nothing'  has been incredible.  It's why this has been ignored by so many administrations for so long.  You're damned if you do and damned it you don't do something !  Yet ironically everyone wants 'something' to be done. Oh, but don't question anyone who 'appears' to be illegally from Mexico or brown.  Is this not taking PC beyond all limits. 

I also agree we need to stop one of the major causes, using illegal's from Mexico for cheap labor.  We tout we can't afford to have them taking "our" jobs.  Yet don't we draw a line between when they are taking our 'construction jobs' vs. them picking our strawberries.  I've personally heard of no folks complaining the illegal Mexicans are taking their farm labor jobs away.   Is this not a double standard in and of itself. 

It's a mess, but racial it's not !!!  Having said all that, there IS a racial under/overtone that unfortunately muddies these waters big time and from both sides, for and against the issue.  That,the obvious bigotry, is what is fueling this firestorm and preventing rational approaches or thought to a long standing issue our country can no longer 'afford' to ignore.

It will be in the form of a national or federal ID card with your entire lifes story on a little magnetic strip on the back, Orwell was right, here comes big brother.

That is a difficult question. This post was written by an immigration lawyer , answers your questions (or shows how deep that question goes, rather) better than I ever could. Comments are good too.

WOW, guess if anyone were to question ones citizenship, it would be hard to prove, especially if born in the US. How does one prove their birth certificate is infact theirs if it were called into question? The sad thing is these stupid laws came up several times when Napalitano was gov, she vetoed them. She vetoed 180 ideas for laws during her time in office, a record. Things will get much goofier in AZ until the majority of the reps and the gov are from different parties. They already passed anyone can carry a concealed weapon, the new birther law, this immigration law and sign in to fight the healthcare bill even though Attorney General Terry Goddard refused to sign on. (who by the way is running for governor). You have to keep in mind it is not the citizens voting for this stuff, it is their reps. None of these ideas have come up for a AZ resident vote. If they had, I don't think they would have passed. I don't think the majority of AZ residents agree with these bills/laws.

LOL Charlie, they boycotted that in AZ (too expensive) also I just read that they changed their mind on having a enhanced ID too. They were going to up the standards for an ID but the new legislators and Gov just canceled that.

I think your probably right

California did, but it was thrown out because it was unconstitutional.

Fining the employers is the best way to go. I wondered when you would see this thread of havoc...LOL

I'm having a hard time figuring it out myself, and it's mine, lol

Back with a bang!

BTW...Loved this comment I just seen, on a thread about this...

Shindler's list was on this afternoon on HBO and I could not help but think of the what could happen in this country if we let the tea-baggers run the show

yep, back with a bang and number 1 with a bullet, lol.

You've come back ready for action Charlie.  I think many of us are having a hard time figuring it out.  It's difficult for many reasons.  What is good about Arizona's bill though is that it has brought the issue front and center.  Forced us to confront what has been kept on a back burner for far too long. Whether one agrees with this bill or not it has prompted debate, albeit heated at times.  This in itself is far better than continuing to ignore the obvious, something has to be done. Let's hope the public opinion prompts our countries leadership to action and they are forced to take care of this once and for all. 

Yes, I am sure the news will drip with the whities offended at being asked for their papers. Please, this is racist, this is an attempt to supress the hispanic vote, and this is becoming the face of the GOP, right before an election...

I'm Thrilled!

Hispanic and Legal immigrants and their families vote- Check...

Why don't you arrest the employer?

There is a law in Arizona where employers are charged and fined for knowingly hiring illegals.

Ever used it? Ever known of anyone to use it? Do you know what the fine is?

I have not used it because it has not happened in my particular city but it has been enforced.  I will have to research the details but when Napolotano was governor she signed it into law.  There have been some businesses here in AZ smacked around because of that law.

After doing a real quick check the most recent example was a Phoneix Subway resturant (can't spell that word) was fined $431.00 and closed down for two days for having an illegal working for them.  This just happened in March 2010.  There are more and I will look them up but I am dog tired.

I would love to know how many, if any, and what a "smack" is by this law.

"How would you ask an Oriental or a European person if the ywere a citizen?"  I would ask Asians or Europeans the same as  I do Hispanics.  The key is if I pull a traffic stop or I am answering a call for service of some sort and I ask for ID and I am handed a drivers license issued out of AZ or any other state or a non driver's license ID card then that is all I need.  If I am handed a foreign driver's license, green card, resident alien card, work visa, Mexican voter registration card, consular card, etc., then I may or may not start inquiring about citizenship.  It depends on the situation.  If I suspect I am dealing with an illegal alien who is the victim of a crime, I am not going to ask about their citizenship and I do not have too.  Even with the passage of 1070.  If the person is I am dealing with is a suspect in a crime of course I am going to inquire.  I do it already.  If the person is not here legally I turn that person over to ICE.  The only difference with the passage of the bill is on a traffic stop I can call ICE if the person is an illegal alien becasue there illegal status is a state crime.  Right now if an illegal has not committed a crime and has only committed a civil traffic infraction I write he/she a ticket and send them on their way.

Hitler issue: I still disagree, becasue the vast majority of police around country would not enforce such a law if crossed the boundried from illegal aliens to say people of a certain religion, creed, sex, color etc.  As an officer I am very aware of how things can spiral out of control and one thing that many people forget is that Americans have a different mindset than Germans.  Police officers are constantly questioning authority and decisions made by our command staff and federal and state legislatures and if we smell a rat then we resist.  Also keep in mind the vast majority of the people who support this bill would not let something like this bill get out of control.  You need to try and have a little faith that those of us who do not necessarily agree with you point of view are ever vigilant about the possiblity of these things getting out of control.  The last I and my fellow officers want is a Nazi like state.  Also try to remember without the police the government has no power and if we decided not to enforce certain laws (which happens from time to time) then the government is helpless. 

I have studies Hitler, your full of shit. In all actuality, the country was broke BEFORE Hitler and he brought them out of the hole and thats why so many loved him, where the hell do you get your history? From Glen Beck?