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To Mosque, or not to Mosque. That is the question
To Mosque, or not to Mosque. That is the question
Right now, as I write this; the Iranian President is ordering his minions to dig hundreds of graves. These graves are for Americans. (IF we attack his country.)
Why would the Iranian President FEAR that “we” would attack “his” country..??
Maybe the president of Iran is worried because he is about to fire up Iran’s FIRST nuclear power plant, against the wishes of many in the world, so the Iranian president has ordered the digging of graves for dead Americans.
Talk about “busy work.” Talk about a government wasting money on bogus jobs that really DO nothing.
In America, we were angry that President Obama spent 20 million bucks putting up signs along the highway. Signs that talked about all the jobs that were created by the “stimulus.”
In Iran, they are building graves for no one.
Maybe they could plant some pretty flowers in all those holes in the ground?
Why is the Iranian President doing this, now?
I could see this happening during the “evil” cowboy presidency of BUSH. However, Bush hasn’t been president for almost two years. President Obama, to my knowledge, has done every thing that he can to reach out to Muslims and Iran, yet they turn around and do this..??
This could be a “teachable moment” for President Obama and the left...
Some people “hate” for no other reason than the fact that they just “hate” YOU.
So, the question is no longer: “what can we do to stop ‘them’ from hating us?” We have answered that question- “There is nothing, nothing that we can do to stop them from hating us.”
So the question becomes: What are “WE” going to do about “THEM?”
I hate using terms like “we” and “them.”
I hate using those terms because there is so many of “us”, (and there is a hell of a lot of “them.”)
We are all different. Why would anyone lump all of “us” into one category?
But the Iranian President did.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad didn’t say that he would fill those empty graves with DEAD Republicans. No, he is going to fill those graves with “Americans.” He doesn’t seem to care if you are a democrat or a republican.
Will Iran fill those empty graves with Christians or Jews only? No. The graves are being built for all Americans, regardless if you believe in God or not.
The only way to save yourself is to convert to Islam. (Or, at least, do whatever the Iranian President wants.)
Beyond the question of: “What will we do about them,” begs the question: “Why do we give “them” so much power?”
You may have guessed by now, my editorial for today is on “power” and “tolerance.”
Every so often, a political issue comes up that is truly only an Americans issue. This issue wouldn’t happen in many other nations because we enjoy great freedom. But with freedom comes tolerance, because I may not like your freedom. (Or what you choose to do with your freedom.)
It is an American issue that causes Americans to become even more Americanized, by assuming that they are more American then their American counterparts, because only a non-American who doesn’t have the Americanization, would think like that.
Totally un-American. (You catch my drift..??)
So a group of Muslims want to build a Mosque at the 9/11 ground zero site. They want this Mosque to be opened on 9/11/11. (Which would be the ten year anniversary of THE DAY that members of radical Islam flew planes into the World Trade Towers and killed thousands of Americans.)
This Mosque would not be on the “actual” site of the attack on America, it is 2 blocks away. Yet, that is only 600 feet away from ground zero, which is sacred ground, which should only be used for high priced office buildings and financial trading business.
Hell, you will not even be able to SEE this Mosque from ground zero. Oh YES YOU CAN, if you are standing in the right place.
This isn’t an evil Mosque, it is a place of tolerance where all people can visit and enjoy. Oh yea, then why is opening day on the anniversary of 9/11, and why can’t we discover where the money to build this Mosque is coming from?
On and on rages the debate about the ground zero Mosque.
Is America tolerant enough to allow this type of freedom..??
Hold on now, you are way ahead of this editorial, and missing an important question...
Does America allow an “anything goes” type of freedom..??
The answer is no.
Are you “FREE” enough to sit on your porch and yell, scream, drink beer, and pass gas.
YES, (aaahhh, that is until a neighbor complains and calls the police.) Then, you will have to shut your pie hole.
Try putting a fence around your property.
To put a fence around your property, you MUST get a city / county permit. In most states, to issue the permit, you must have the permission of all neighbors who could be affected by this fence, (your fence could block my view, etc.) If one person objects to the building of this fence, your project could be halted, even though the fence would be on YOUR property.
That was just a stupid little fence, we have millions of Americans who object to this Mosque being placed so close to ground zero, and we can’t stop it. But we could stop the building of a fence..?? This logic doesn’t make sense, does it.
Maybe we should try a little experiment in “tolerance.” Maybe we should open a female strip club near ground zero. But this will not be just any strip club with naked female dancers, this strip club will be a religion. As a religion, some “members” of THIS church will attend to worship the female body. It will be nonprofit, and not pay taxes to the city or state, and it will help the poor with it’s profits. Since it will be located within the financial district of New York City, we will call it: “Frisky Business.”
The Church of “Frisky Business.”
Or maybe Fox News’ “Red Eye” TV show host- Greg Gutfeld is on to something by raising money to build a Muslim Gay Bar next to the ground zero Mosque? Let’s see how tolerant the Muslims are. (Considering that Gay Muslims are killed by other Muslims in many of their home countries.)
Would Republican Mayor Bloomberg and his minions in City Council be so tolerant of Gutfeld’s Muslim Gay Bar, or my “Church of Frisky Business” opening at ground zero..??
Probably not.
But, herein lies the problem.
Mayor Bloomberg, City Council, and local community groups HAVE given their blessings on this Mosque’s construction.
Local government- that was our “fail-safe.”
Local politicians could have stopped this Mosque from being built for a dozen different reasons, and that might have been the end of it. Yet, Bloomberg and others have chosen to make a political statement out of a tragedy.
And what is the political statement that they are trying to make..??
That America is SO tolerant, we will allow a religion to build a HUGE religious monument at ground zero, we do not care where the money is coming from, (because we are so tolerant) and we do not mind that the Mosque will be opened on the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, the very day that other members of THE SAME RELIGION destroyed NYC.
So I have to ask my friends on the Right; “Do we truly have tolerance in America.?”
And folks on the Left, I must ask; “Why do you give Muslims so much power?” Muslims do not have that much power, YOU ARE GIVING THAT POWER TO THEM. Why?
You do not give Christians that much power. You do not give any other religion the power that you give to Muslims. Why? Do you fear Muslims? Do you feel sorry for them?
Maybe you do not see things clearly because there is a curtain hiding your view? Let me remove that curtain so you can see better.
Let’s say that a few Catholic Priests were molesting children. Would you be angry at the actual Priests who did the molesting? Or would you condemn the Catholic Religion in general for hiding the affair, moving Priests around from church to church, and not doing enough to stop it?
(Aaahh, you are starting to see, because the curtain is coming free.)
Would you be angry at Muslims, in general, because they are NOT doing enough to stop the radicals within their own religion from killing innocent people and blowing shit up? Would you be angry at Muslims who do not report radicals in their Mosque, or neighborhood?
Yes, the curtain is free, and now you see.
You are giving a group of people MORE power, than you would give anyone else.
OK, just because I am a conservative, it doesn’t mean that I will take it easy on my conservative friends. (This is where I get kicked out of the “conservative club”- again.)
Tolerance
Let’s say a White guy, who is very critical of the FIRST Black President, decided to hold a BIG rally on the VERY day that Martin Luther King Jr. gave his famous “I have a dream” speech. What if this White guy, (who has been very critical of the first Black President) decided to hold that BIG rally at almost the very SAME spot as Martin Luther King Jr gave his famous speech, would that be OK..??
Should that day be held strictly for the memory of Martin Luther King Jr?
Being a conservative, and having listened to Glenn Beck, I know that Beck will treat this day with the utmost respect. This isn’t a “White against Black” rally. It isn’t a Left against Right rally. It is a “right against wrong” rally and Beck has the support of some of MLK Jr’s relatives.
But some people do not see it that way.
Some people see this as a racist White guy, who hates the first Black President, having a “Klan” rally at the sight of MLK’s famous speech.
You and I know that isn’t true, but out of respect, should Glenn Beck have picked a different day for his 8/28 project..??
Should Muslims pick a different spot to build a Mosque instead of ground zero..??
These are tough questions to answer in a free country.
Legally, both have every right to do what they are doing.
Out of respect for all people, each should probably have changed their projects a little.
The ONLY way you can have tolerance is if both sides have equal respect for each other. If one side has no respect for others, any tolerance will be short lived.
I do not believe that Muslim leaders have respect for America and our ways. Placing a Mosque this close to ground zero furthers my belief that they do not respect us.
Without mutual respect, our tolerance will only go so far.
I am totally against placing this Mosque near ground zero. I show no tolerance to someone who doesn’t respect me.
I am not alone.
60% of Americans do not like this location for a Mosque. (This would include democrats like Howard Dean and Harry Reid.) New York City construction workers are vowing to stop any construction, if this Mosque is to be built here.
In a perfect world, NYC would have been manned by good politicians who would have given this Mosque more thought before giving it the green light. That is why local elections are so important. Bloomberg is a republican, which means that voting for a person who has an “R” next to their name will not guaranty great conservative public service. (Many progressives are finding this out too, when democrat Press Secretary Gibbs told many on the left that they should have a urine test, for speaking out against Obama’s choices.)
Also in a perfect world, even if this Mosque gets built, it will sit mostly empty.
It will sit empty because American Muslims will not like what it stands for. Moderate Muslims will see the symbolism of this Mosque, and out of respect for those who died on that day, they will not patronize this Mosque and it will fail. The Mosque will close, or be sold.
This would be a even bigger symbol, and send an even more powerful message, than stopping the construction of the Mosque in the first place.
The fact that America was tolerant enough to allow this Mosque to be built near ground zero, yet the Mosque closed in several years because people had respect for each other, and didn’t like what the Mosque stood for, and they didn’t go there.
Written by AR Babonie for The Angry Republic
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I simply respect the constitution and their right to do what they want with the property they purchased. Rather I personally approve or not is not the question. It's theirs, end of story. BTW, as I mentioned to someone else, the C-Street republican sex cult for christ helped in drafting the Uganda kill the gays bill, so using your reasoning, why would I support or believe them any better?
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As I said in the editorial, EKY; they have every right to build the Mosque (community center) there near ground zero. (BTY, it WILL be a type of Mosque because they will have on-site Imam’s and rooms for prayer.) I have four basic problems with this issue; Moral- (needs no further explanation, we are debating that). Location- this Mosque had a different location when they first planned out this project, BUT after communicating to others- overseas, they picked this location closer to ground zero; WHY? Even American Muslims groups are questioning this decision. Timing- EKY, you have got to be a little rattled by the opening date of this Mosque to be: 9/11/11. There is no other way to take that opening date other than a slap in the face. (Now, in NYC, there is no way that the construction will be done by 9/11/11, they haven’t even removed the old structure yet, but still; that is their opening date as of right now.) Money- where is the money coming from to build this center? EKY- what if this were a Baptist group who had the motto- "Gay people have NO rights, and should move to another country". What if this Baptist group had $16,000 bucks in their church account, but were building a $100 million dollar "church" near ground zero; wouldn’t you want to know WHO was giving this group the $100 million..?? You actually- legally have a right to know where the money is coming from. We do not know where Muslims are getting the money for this center. Even Donald Trumpp has to show which bank is floating the cash for a new "high-rise" in NYC. They have every right to build there. But I agree with President Obama on this one: "I question the wisdom of placing a Mosque there." IT WILL cause MORE tension between Muslims and Americans. Actually, this will be an interesting case study in social dynamics. We (America) told Muslims that they CAN build this Mosque, but many Americans do not like the idea. Will they (Muslims) thank us for the freedom that they receive here in America, (freedom that Jews or Christians would NOT receive in Muslim countries) Will they thank us, however decide to GIVE the area back and build elsewhere, to help build a bridge to peace between Muslims and Americans? Or will they TAKE this location and build anyway? Will they TAKE? Or will they GIVE? (BTW, that is a good way to find out who your friends are.) |
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Where is the money coming from, Fox news corp's second largest shareholder for one. Location: There are strip clubs in the same vicinity, betting agencies. The idea that this old Burlington coat factory two blocks away is "Sacred ground" is laughable at best. The top two floors of this 13 story building are for their worship, so? Can they not worship there, There are already mosques in the city, one is 3 blocks from the site. Of course, there are different kinds of Muslims like there are different kinds of christians. No one lumps all christians with Fred Phelps do they? Timing: Not sure about your stated opening date, as this is the first time admittingly I have seen that claim, and since you didn't source that, I take it with a big ole grain of salt. Beck's rally with Racist Teddy N. could be said to have poor timing too. But their right to open it when and how they want doesn't have to conform to your or my sensitivies. |
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eky, Yeah...it's a community center just like Obama was a mere "community organizer". (Obama is now better known as a trouble-maker, rabble-rouser and a race-baiter rather than an "organizer"). A mosque is used for praying and converting good Americans to their rotten agenda. And that's EXACTLY what the Muslims plan on doing. (Obama coached people how to race-bait and use race to undermine banking institutions by threatening bank presidents to give loans to people who couldn't afford to pay the mortgages). Swell guy. Why would Muslims want to build a mosque next to a strip club anyway?? Are they particulary smutty Muslims? They must want to repent after they visit the strip clubs. Should be real interesting.
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It is a community center, just because it's funders at Fox keep calling it a Mosque doesn't make it so. The housing issue you put in parenthesis was George W. Bush, not Obama, Remember TARP was his Idea. It's not next to the strip club, they are both at a similar distance from Ground zero. "rotten agenda" see this is the problem. I could call all christians the same as Fred Phelps, but I don't. However, with Islam, the right makes no distinction. Could I say christians are pedophiles? All of them, just want to diddle the little ones? There are different types of islam, as there are different types of Christians. |
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Ahhh, a rose by any other name..... If they preach and pray, it's function is as a Mosque. And they will. They will also disseminate propaganda, couching it as religion, and their religion is the same as their government. Cleric and Imam run. The Muslim religion runs their government. Just because they choose to call it a community center doesn't inspire me to think it's other than a mosque. Historically, Muslims built mosques on sites of victories. The fact that the land that the Twin Towers wasn't available doesn't deter them from building as close as possible. Cordoba, Spain was such a place. We separate church and State. They don't. Whichever cult-like portion of Islam is in control, dictates. All religions have had bloody histories, but that doesn't make building a mosque two blocks from the scene of the bloodiest attack on the USA right. |
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We have chapels in hospitals, so are they really "churches"? Why don't you support our troops? Why would you let your hate undermine everything they are trying to do, and increase the risk to their lives by giving motivation and fuel to attack our troops? You think what you are doing isn't the best propaganda for the real enemy that there is? |
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You should really watch some of the video of the cleric who is pushing this Mosque, he is right at the edge of radical. You guys on the left were blind-sided by Rev. Wright because you folks thought it was a bunch of "right-wing" crap. But when the videos went mainstream, the left and Barack Obama had to quickly claim that Obama sat in that church for twenty years but didn't really listen to Rev. Wright. You are going to get blind-sided again because The Huffer Post, the Kos, and the likes are NOT showing this cleric and the things that he has said. Look at it this way, EKY: Wal-Mart has every right to build a new store on private land that is for sale. Yet, people will protest and stop the construction of a new Wal-Mart. It happens every year. You know that is true. Tell me what "constitutional right" do people have in stopping a department store from opening on private land? If Muslims really respect Americans, they WILL move this Mosque. |
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EKY said- "Where is the money coming from (to build this Mosque), Fox news corp's second largest shareholder for one." You act as though this is a BIG deal..?? News Corp is a publicly traded company. When you sell stocks on the open market, you cannot restrict who buys the stock. So what, a group of rich Arabs decided to buy into Fox News because they can pick a winner. (Fox News has been the number one cable news network in America for years.) Do you blame the Arabs for investing in Fox? Why would they sink money into MSNBC or CNN..?? I wouldn't. So what, if these same Arabs who bought News Corp stock are also backing this Mosque..?? That doesn't put any link between Fox and the Mosque. Same on you for trying to deceive. BTW, these Arabs are only putting up a few million. Who is putting up the other 90 million bucks..?? You don't seem to care. |
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Act as if its a big deal. Shareholders have rights to vote on corporations activities. If this guy, who loves his Sharia law, got pissed over the coverage, are you saying there would be no reprocussions? Murdoch also published the Imam's book on Islam . Let me guess, no big deal? LMAO. Hypocrisy abounds. That is not "trying to decieve" that is called disclosure. If the right was serious in its opposition, they would be screaming about this too. They are not. This is trumped up islamophobia, which only serves to undo the work of Patreaus and our attempts to "win hearts and minds". Good job!
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It is NO BIG DEAL that an Arab man buys stock in News Corp. You are the one who is calling me a racist. Then you think that I MUST act like a racist, and be appalled that an Arab man bought into Fox News, just because you called me a racist. I do not care that an Arab man bought stock in News Corp. The simple fact that Fox is the only network that is against the building of this Mosque PROVES that even the “part” owner of Fox cannot taint the coverage that appears on Fox. (Again, you help prove my point. Let’s see MSNBC report stories that shine a bad light on GE. Never going to happen.) Now, I do not usually do other people’s “homework” for them. But for you, I will make an exception, because you seem persistent. The opening date for this Mosque was (is) set for 9/11/11. The Imam may have changed that date because he realized that it was a “stick in the eye” using that date. Just the simple fact that this Cleric picked that date in the first place proves that there is a hidden agenda here. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/mosque_madness_at_ground_zero_OQ34EB0MWS0lXuAnQau5uL
The Huffington Post (via AP) called this center a “Mosque”. The Huffer went on to say that Hamas claims a “Mosque” MUST be built at ground zero. So, regardless of how you view this Mosque, Radical Islam has a VERY different take on it and it’s location. (Plus, it was reported as such in the Huffington Post, so it MUST be right, right EKY?) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/16/hamas-leader-mosque-near-_n_682945.html
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Well said, as usual. It would be nice to believe that it would not be patronized, but somehow, I think that's a tad idealistic. I suspect if it comes right down to it, it will be a major stop on NYC guided tours. I could be wrong, and hope I am. |
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At a price tag of $100 million bucks, this Mosque / Center will be a big thing with all sorts of fancy crap in there. I am sure that it will be crowded. However, in a "Norman Rockwell" type America, I picture the place being empty because people do not care for what it stands for. However, I am not too happy about the "Freedom Tower" being built there with high $$$ dollar office space for rent. Yet, the Freedom Tower is replacing what was there in the first place. So I understand that. |
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AHHHH, in a perfect world.... Unfortunately there is no such thing. |
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Nope, there is no "perfect world." Maybe Pluto? But Pluto isn't even a planet anymore. |
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That's so sad. All those years of being a planet...then 'boom' you're downgraded to a dwarf...maybe we could rename it 'Dopey, or Sleepy, or Doc'! |
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How does one become a minister at the “Church of Frisky Business”? |
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You have to be a stripper on sacred ground . At least a year.
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LOL, darn I had better start practicing, if I want to become a minister. I hope you don't have to be good at it. Will any sacred ground work or does it have to be in NY? |
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Has to be within 3 blocks of WTC, no one cares about the other places like the pentagon . I don't make these stupid rules, I just laugh at them... |
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I know, it is odd, I have tried to figure that out myself... Well, if I have to go to NY forget it. I would probably suck as a minister anyway. |
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OMG, you are so Witty....
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You can be the first Minister of The Church of Frisky Business. (And YES it has to be sacred ground in NYC.) The Pentagon is State property and you cannot build a church or Mosque on State land. However, the farmland of Shanksville Pa is mostly open with nothing there. (Including no people.) But no one seems to want to put a Mosque in the cornfields of Shanksville..?? |
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Go figure you would think Shanksville would be first on the list.:) |
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five stars even though I disagree........... |
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Thanks Holly. I am just wondering, where do you disagree? |
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Boy people get testy over this stuff, especially when you point out they are being hypocrites with the "gay bar" 'joke'. Guess they don't like having their homophobia pointed out. |
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The reason i did not say why is because I have said it hundreds of times on this site already but for you I will do it again. I am sick of all the hate. Hatred by Americans against Americans and against an entire faith based on the actions of the radical faction of said religion. Anyone , like me, who has bothered to learn about Islam knows that it is much like the Protestant faith inasmuch that there are as many different denominations and levels. So where as Protestantism has the Phelps , the snake charmers, the Amish as do the Muslims. No we prefer to have crazy Christian nuts screaming "Don't let Sharia law happen in America" Where it never can because we first would have to be a theocracy. Yet, we choose to believe blindly just as we believe jihad means to blow shit up, which it does not it in fact means to do something to increase Islam. It is only the political nuts who blow shit up. I see Christians condoning homosexuality so long as it increases their bashing of Islam,. Pick a side damn it. I do not see a problem building a community center what on the third block from ground zero. For gods sake there is a strip club equidistant why are they not bashing that if the ground is so sacred? I honestly think they would bitch if it were 3 blocks away or 30. We have freedom of religion in American and they own the property. If the religious right disputed this they should have bought it themselves. I do not see this as a message the Muslims are sending but one the Christians are sending, "We hate!" I find it disgusting. |
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I can understand that. They do have every legal right to build there. I just wish for safety sake, they would look at another location. |
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"For gods sake there is a strip club equidistant why are they not bashing that if the ground is so sacred? " Strippers didn't fly any airplanes into public buildings either. |
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If the ground is sacred then these same people should have been bitching long before the Community Center was ever an idea not to mention the betting house................. |
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My point, the ground is NOT sacred where the community center is to be built |
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Not sacred, and not smart. Check out my earlier comment . I can imagine how this is helping our troops in Afghanistan win their "hearts and minds" seeing everything from protests to Koran Burnings on 9/11 by churches here. That supports the troops real well, don't it. |
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NOW you are worried about the troops. Several years ago, you were calling the Iraq War an illegal war. Statements of yours and others caused more harm to the poor US forces trying to win a war. NOW, all of a sudden, you are worried... |
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Maybe Americans all need pet pot-bellied pigs to walk on leashes in NYC.... ground zero pet patrol.....maybe they could park their pigs and join the Muslim worship services. I would if I could. And those demanding Muslims had better be "tolerant" and nice to our pigs. How about a Hog-worshipping Church with sacred sows..... Porky and Petunia posters everywhere. Hooker hog walkers (in bikinis) at the Church of Frisky Business. Bacon and ham and pulled pork sandwich shops on every corner. |
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You crack me up..!! Yes, a pulled pork sandwich shop right next door to the Mosque. We could do like BK does and push the smoke into the neighborhood so everyone can smell the pork cooking for miles around. |
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I'll vote for all those things, PLUS the Gay Islamic Bar next door! As long as they have plenty of non-alcoholic drinks available, as we wouldn't want them to have to do something that is against their religion...lol! |
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Wait! Wait! Gay Islamic Bar & BBQ! |
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Why is it the right only approves of "the gay" when it makes someone they dislike more uncomfortable? |
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Non-alcoholic drinks, but yum to the BBQ. Hey, there is a strip club in the same area. Sacred ground...riiighhht. |
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Trace~ |
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@Eky...if you're referring to my comment, which guessing based on the placement (yes, yes, seldom accurate, I know) in the thread, you are, I don't approve of "the gay" ever, whether it makes other uncomfortable or not. I approve of anyone loving anyone else they choose. I don't approve of bringing the bedroom (yours, mine, Holly's, or anyone else's) into politics. That being said, the Gay Islamic Bar was not my original idea, which you'd realize if you'd read anything but gay bashing into this. All I did was concatenate a few of the above referenced ideas into one establishement. Don't get your knickers in a knot. |
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EKY~I don't have a problem gay's--although it's not a lifestyle I would choose for my kids--neither would I freak, if they went that way.... My youngest brother was gay, and died from AIDS 23 years ago. I never, ever condemned him for the lifestyle. Not ever. I liked a lot of his friends, also.... Most all the gay people (male and female) I've ever known were really nice people, that I liked. The gay islamic bar is really meant as humor--trying to be funny I guess. When I first read the guys article suggesting the idea, I just thought it was hilarious.... |
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Trace: My comment about why do they only approve was to Mamakat, Not to you. Who's knickers get in a knot?
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I miss the humor. |
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AR,
Ya think we all can convert those Sharia compliant Muslims with the smell of pulled pork??? I'm willing to give it a try....it would be fun to watch their mouths water while they are praying!!!! We could also teach those smart pigs (the Pot-bellied Pigs not the Sharia Pigs) to defecate on a reasonable facsimile of a prayer mat, and turn 'em loose in the crowd when the Mulims pray..... I do believe in returning contempt with contempt. They want to demonstrate their superiority by building next to ground zero, we can let them know exactly how we feel about it. I don't believe in turning the other cheek.
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Its not next to ground zero, its two blocks away. |
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eky, Nit-picker!!! |
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It's called being accurate. |
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A mosque that large will dominate the area. Who are you kidding? Wake up eky!
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Community center, not mosque. |
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Sometimes, it's hard to follow the thread, unless somebody replies and states who the comment was made to. I've started to try to do that myself.....because sometimes it gets confusing.... |
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EKY~Sorry you didn't get the humor. It's just that they are preaching 'tolerance' to US.....after what happened. But they are the most intolerant group of people in the world. They come in demanding 'special rights' because we 'offend ' them. HEY--we were here first, and this is OUR country.....Ask a European how that whole thing progresses....into demanding that they be allowed to practice sharia law amongst their own...even though most of it is in direct opposition to the laws of the country, and abhorrent to most of the people in the civilized world. And YES....in most Islamic countries, homosexuality is punishable by death...and often death by stoning. Would you like me to send you some videos of those kind of things....I would be more than happy to do so. If they get enough 'special rights' here, you could be in big trouble. Do you think you're discriminated against NOW????? No, you're not. Maybe there are particular people who discriminate, but, by law you are not discriminated against. Wait until the muslims start having major input into our laws....or worse, take over the whole deal. That is why I saw the humor in this whole 'Gay Islamic Bar' thing. They are the very most intolerant people in the world...They condemn us for being 'intolerant' for them wanting to do this whole project..It is like a direct stab at America...no respect for what happened. Their 'Grand OPening scheduled for the 10th Anniversary of 9/11..which is a real kick in the teeth. And the project has nothing to do with 'building bridges' or promoting 'interfaith understanding'. If they were interested in those things, at least a few of the 100+ mosques in NYC would have already been doing so. .....I guarantee there are many gay persons of the muslim faith or culture.....who are waaaay more closeted than you or anybody here....because if they come out in the open...they are subject to death by stoning, and many things worse than anything this country could even think about doing. JMO! If you still feel comfortable with these people building this mosque at this location..... I don't know what else to say..... Let me know if you want me to send you some more information on this subject. This is waaay more than a question of 'Religious Freedom'.. Do they have the legal right to build this mosque. Of course they do. This is America. Is it 'right' for them to do so. NO. It is not! And if they don't understand why so many Americans are against it, and choose to build it anyway...it is just another sign of their lack of understanding of reality or any kind of 'tolerance.' Just let me know, if you want any more information on this subject. I will be more than happy to pass it on. This whole thing should be extremely scary to you of all people..... I know that your political views are very liberal. Mine are pretty much in the conservative range. That's cool.... we're Americans and we can have our differences and still get along. But letting these people get a big foothold in this country, will likely affect you, moreso than me, as a regular nobody....unless they outlaw booze...lol! sorry I considered the 'gay bar' idea as humorous...if that offends you. But the idea was...."If they want us to be tolerant....then they need to be tolerant also." If you lived in an islamic country, you would have been dead by now--probably by some really horrible method--like being stoned to death--which is just about the most horrible...no...awful...no miserable...no..I don't even know how to describe the possibilities...death even imaginable in this day and age...... While you may at times, run into a little prejudice in this country, in this day and age..., it is minor, compared to what may be ahead.....
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Strippers didn't murder 3000 Americans on 9/11. |
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560 feet, to be precise. |
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LW: no, strippers didn't, but sayin the area is "sacred" when such things are there is a bit...stupid. This is about hate, and islamophobia. Terrorists did that, but people aren't seeing that, they are seeing muslim. They were men too, why not that shared characteristic. Hey 15 were SAUDI, why not that shared characteristic? We have troops in Afghanistan, with General Patreaus charged with "winning hearts and minds", and when they look over here, they see our churches burning their books and protesting their mosques across the country . NYT had an Op-Ed on this, called "How Fox Betrayed Petraeus ", worth a read. Republicans and conservatives are doing exactly what Bin Laden wanted and predicted they would do: Showing their hatred of the Muslim community. "560 feet, to be precise." Maybe as the crow flies.... |
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EKY said: "..I simply respect the constitution and their right to do what they want with the property they purchased.." WOW, I am so glad that you respect the constitution. Then you are with me to get President Obama impeached because he gave himself the sole ability to shut down the Internet, without consoling congress, if he (the president) feels the need to shut the Internet down. I mean, that goes against the first Amendment and Obama MUST be stopped. We have free speech, correct? And if President Obama shut the Internet down, he would "infringe" on that right of free speech. And because you (EKY) respect the constitution, you will help me get President Obama impeached because he shut down all offshore drilling when one oil well had problems. A president cannot do that, he is not a King. Maybe you think that the "general welfare" clause gives the president the right to shut down an entire industry? Well, then President Obama should have shut down the entire egg industry when we found out that some eggs had salmonella bacteria. Why would Obama shut down the offshore oil industry, but not the egg industry? BOTH could harm Americans, (if we are using the "general welfare" clause.) Because you, (EKY) respect the constitution, you will join me in getting President Obama impeached because the constitution MUST be followed to the... Wait, unless you only respect the constitution when it benefits your arguments and benefits you political party..?? Please tell me EKY, that you are not a political hack who only cares about right and wrong when it benefits your political party? |
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There is no reason to impeach Obama, unlike his predecessor who had many reasons. Some eggs being nearly half a Billion, from repeat violators of safety and regulations... Offshore oil drilling has not been as "costly" an issue as the right would wish it was. Of course, we had everything we could get working on that spill and clean up, really still do. Where will the cleanup for number 2 come from had there been another accident, bearing in mind the Hundreds of violations that company accumulated alone (much less the others). Think we can just pull clean up teams out of thin air? |
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Vest bombs! Is that what the bowling ally is really for! My stars
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Prophecy: The Mosque will be built. The Mosque will be a target. Some Timothy McVeigh in training will make it go BOOM. More lives will be lost. End of story, end of mosque. |
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That is one problem I have with this idea. Also, some lost little NYC teenager will hang out at this Mosque, our poor little lost soul will meet a radical member of Islam in this ground zero Mosque, he will learn that he COULD have a purpose in life if he does something for Allah. So, our lost little teenager gabs a bag of bombs and heads for the Path Train and blows up hundreds of people; including Little Whip and The Angry Republican, (who happened to be visiting NYC on a vacation.) This Mosque is a BAD idea which will fuel anger between Muslims and Americans. It doesn't really matter which way you want to look at it. (Which bias you choose.) Why build it there? You have been to NYC, right? There are MANY sites to build this Mosque. |
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It almost sounds like a way to start a war... Mosque gets built, mosque gets blown to hell, some radical sect retalitates, Americans retaliate against this attack on our home soil, fingers get pointed, money gets spent, NYC goes bye bye. Yeah, extreme example...but sometimes wars DO get started by stupid shit, and insensitivity to others. |
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And thus further proof that christians can be just as evil as muslims. Where in Florida was it they were having the Koran book burning thing? |
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eky,
You actually have the nerve to call Christians evil who want to burn Korans, compared to 3000 American dead, and the destruction of two of the most magnificent buildings in NYC, jetliners crashed into the Pentagon, and into Pennsylvania????? Gee, eky, you are really an insensitive ass sometimes. I think you need a dose of reality. Shame on you eky! |
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I find no reality from the right. Now, if you recall, the Nazis were quite fond of "book burnings", now we have a church in Florida wanting to do the same and missing the fact that they are acting in a similar fashion. Terrorist extremists attacked the WTC, it had to do with politics, not their religion. And Muslims pray at the pentagon without complaint, of course, it's not as "sacred" to the bigots against this project. Christians can be just as violent. Look at the attacks on abortion clinics, shooting of Tiller, attacks on gays, the C-Street christian Republican sex cult, Problems in Ireland, the catholic problem with kids, inquistion, crusades, on and on I could go. Some of the worst attrocities, have been at the hands of religion. Muslim, christian, whatever. Both books have stonings, justify rape, amputation, murder, slavery, and so forth. Not all christians practice that way just as not all muslims do neither. |
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I could see that Trace unfortunately I do not think it will be Muslims starting it. |
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@ajay it was Terrorists who killed those people and those terrorists happened to be Islamic. Not all Muslims are terrorists. |
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You sum it up real well here AR! I too believe it is a bad idea. It doesn't need to be built anywhere near ground zero IMO! |
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Yes, I spent many happy afternoons as a child in NYC, but haven't been there as an adult. Shortly after I was born (in Missouri) we set up house on Long Island, and my dad worked in the city. We remained there for 7 years, until we moved to Germany. He'd take us downtown on weekends to see the sights, and the city is etched in my memory forever. (Even now, when I hear the song "Pretty Paper" around Christmastime, I remember the legless veterans in Times Square, peddling whatever they could.) I can easily see your scenario being played out, which is why I hope mine does first. They can call it a "moderate" mosque or whatever, but how are they going to vet the membership? Are they going to vet? |
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Did I say I approve of the shit done in the name of any religion? No. Do I condone it? No. But the Muslims are still doing it, GLOBALLY. Just ordinary Islamics, NOT just the one's classified as terrorists. http://www.blogster.com/ajay70/brought-to-you-by-the-religion-of-peace
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And you think there are no modern christian terrorists? LMAO. Have we forgotten militias like Repent Armarillo ? By republican logic, then all christians harrass and threaten people they don't like. Book burnings, protests, you are doing exactly what Bin Laden and Al Qaeda want you to do, proving you hate All Muslims. We have troops in their country, trying to win them over, how well do you think the rights bigotry is helping them and that. Shameful. |
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eky, How do you seperate the Muslim religion from their politics? I fail to see a difference. The Clerics of the sect in power run the government. Well, it does depend on which sect is in power....but it's the Sharia law that dominates. I'd rather see a book burned than a jet fly into a building. Neither is right, but one is a million times worse. |
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Holly, Who is financing the mosque? Obviously they will have the last word in what is done there. |
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Fox news Second largest shareholder is one of the funders. Remember last big set of Book burnings? Guess using republican logic I can call Christians "nazis" now? |
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eky, Never heard of them. But looked it up. So one nutball (with sheep) is equal to all of the terrorist attacks by all of the Muslims involved in murders and terrorism for the past 40 years? Somehow I don't think so. Europe is experiencing their takeover and pushiness right now. Europeans hate it, and they hate Muslim's Sharia Law. What I am wondering is what do you like about Sharia Law? Why don't you understand how insidious and dangerous many Muslims are? They are taught to lie, to pander and to obfuscate. So exactly how many are good and how many are bad? But most of all, what do you find appealing about Sharia Law? Because obviously they want to take us over and implement it.
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So the terrorist extremist attacks are equal to ALL the 1.4 Billion Muslims in the world? What I like is our laws, which clearly gives them the right to do this. This reaction we are seeing, is only doing favors for the terrorists. No religion will take over here, that is not realistic. And because I argue for their right to build a community center, does not mean I support any "law" besides our own. |
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eky, PHEW! I did hear you say you don't want their laws imposed on us.... Have you ever thought that "if you give an inch they'll take a mile?" The Europeans are experiencing the nasty backlash of "giving an inch", right now. They are not liking it. |
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Pre-emptive Religious Freedom? |
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Unfortunately, their religion is their law. So they bring not religion, but their law into our country. WE believe in separation between the two. |
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Broad brushes |
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Yes, and your point is??? Whichever Imam or cleric who is interpreting the laws has the final say in how their laws are interpreted. And by the way, is their "church" or mosque given tax-exempt status? And will they, by virtue of breeding to overwhelm the rest of the population here, eventually take over? These are things to consider. It's what's happening in Europe. Are Europeans having regrets? Yep. Historically they overwhelm and beat down the existing populations and replace existing laws with their own. Why won't Muslims have to pay for health care here? What will our children and grandchildren have to deal with? |
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That's not true. Sharia law is only practices in Islamic Nations that are a theocracy. |
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Holly, These nations practice Sharia Law: Iran Other Muslim countries practice forms of it that are not strictly adhered to. And it was never intended, if I'm not mistaken, to oversee the government. This article was from 2003: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec03/sharia_9-29.html
Then, there's this: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ And this: |
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Our constitution prohibits adhearance to religious law, as you would know if you read the first amendment. Because those countries do don't mean we do, or will. So my question is...So what??? |
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eky, Attrition, breeding like rats, voting, terrorism, conversions and eventually a complete takeover seem to be their plan. Didn't they do this in a few countries in their long, bloody history? They have patience. But I try to think ahead more than a few weeks. Do you? |
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And back to pre-emptive religious freedom we go. "New Rule: Those opposed to the 'mosque' can no longer say 'they hate us for our freedoms'. "
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Now list the ones that do not. |
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Holly, Islamics are trying to spread Islam and Sharia Law as fast as they can. Your guess is as good as mine. These sites give an overview and a current count. Islamic States: Afghanistan=Presidential Republic Pakistan=Parliamentary democracy Iran=Presidential Republic and Theocracy Saudi Arabia=Absolute Monarchy Yeman=Presidential Republic Mauritania=Military Junta
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/Desai/islamization_of_the_world.htm http://www.radicalislam.org/content/islam-governing-under-sharia This gives the best overview. Apparently Iran is the only "Theocracy" listed, a combination of Presidential Republic and a theocracy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_majority_countries |
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We can be tolerant and PC or we can be realistic. I prefer to be realistic...the mosque is being built as an "in your face" momument to their conquest...check out the original name they chose, Cordoba. It signifys victory over Spain and chalk up 9/11 as another in the win column. They already have over 100 mosques in the state and at least 17 in the Manhatten area...its not like mosques aren't allowed and they really need this particular spot. All visiting muslims from saudi arabia and like minded countries will drop in and be high 5'ing each other over their accomplishment. Do muslims high 5 each other? |
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Lets see, does every church teach the same exact thing? No, they don't. Number of Mosques is irrelevant, especially since this is a Community center, and not a mosque. |
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LOL....we shall see james. we shall see. I find your naivete sweet. :) |
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You guys crack me up with your comments. Nuff said. Build the mosque or community center or whatever you call it. It is their property and they didn't break any laws and they have the permission of the state. I don't know their intentions but as long as it is not used for terrorist activities or to discriminate against others then build it. |
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Coming to think of it, if the Muslims were responsible for the 911 attacks then why are they building a mosque. should we not force them to build back our Twin Towers? It sounds like a good idea except it was a bunch of radical Muslims that were responsible and not all Muslims. |
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That is the whole problem, they are allowed to build it and broke no laws. But out of respect for what happened, they should move it. Actually, I think a section of one of the planes landed on the roof of this building, which is why it is for sale and the Muslims bought it. So it could be sacred ground. |
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"Knock knock." Who's there? "A Mosque." "Who's a Mosque?" "A mosquito." Sorry I just had to throw that one in. As usual I enjoy your posting. |
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Lots of buildings were damaged that day. They are not all therefore "Sacred". |
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They are not sacred by who's standards..?? Yours or mine? Why should we get to choose which ones are sacred, I live in Pa and you in KY (I think?) What right do we have to say which are sacred. Maybe if we have family that died in that attack, we might see things different. Actually, they are building office buildings on that site, which I see nothing honoring about that, but I do not live there. If radical Christians blew up the WT Towers, I wouldn't want to see a 100 million dollar church built there either, so racism cannot answer why I oppose this Mosque. It is very simple- out of respect for those who were murdered on 9/11, the Mosque should be moved. If this cleric does not respect American wishes, (62% of Americans), then why should we sit quite and let it happen? A Danish cartoonist cannot even print a cartoon about Allah without fearing for his life, and you want to talk about tolerance? |
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Dedicated to or set apart for the worship of a deity.
Worthy of religious veneration: the sacred teachings of the Buddha.
Made or declared holy: sacred bread and wine.
Dedicated or devoted exclusively to a single use, purpose, or person: sacred to the memory of her sister; a private office sacred to the President.
Worthy of respect; venerable.
Of or relating to religious objects, rites, or practices.
1. Um...No. 2. Um...No. 3. Let me think...Um no. 4. Not still selling coats, so...no. 5. Iffy. Since it is 2 blocks away like the strip clubs and such, and not really on the site, I say NO. 6. No.
Bigotry unfortunately IS why you oppose the mosque. You nor the others are willing to admit there are good and decent muslims out there. I have met many, who were wonderful and commpassionate people. I have likewise met many christians I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. If radical Christians blew up the WT Towers, I wouldn't want to see a 100 million dollar church built there either, so racism cannot answer why I oppose this Mosque. Not really no, seems like you assume christians are white there... "It is very simple- out of respect for those who were murdered on 9/11, the Mosque should be moved." Lets ask the Native Americans about what should be moved out of respect for their/our ancestors, shall we? If this cleric does not respect American wishes, (62% of Americans), then why should we sit quite and let it happen? Ummm, because its the law. |
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I think that you are missing the point of what sacred is meaning to the people of NYC - not a dictionary definition. This area is sacred because some 3,000 people lost their lives there. If you've ever visited battlefields, such as the beaches of Normandy, you know those are too considered sacred because of the lives lost. If you ever visit Lockerbie, Scotland you'll know that a portion of that town is considered sacred to those people because of the people who lost their lives on the Pan Am flight. It has nothing to do with it being a spot for places of worship or strip clubs - it has to do with the very real loss of life that occurred - and because the rubble from those buildings spread for blocks (not to mention bodies and body parts - and I'm not trying to be crude here) you can't confine the sacredness of this land to the footprints of 1 and 2 World Trade Center. Denigrating the very real hurt of those who lost loved ones and friends that day by trying to make this issue fit a dictionary definition is just flat out wrong - including their feelings that this mosque/community center/in your face building is in, at the very least, in bad taste. I don't care whether you agree with the mosque going there or not - that area for several blocks IS sacred ground. |
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Again, it was extremists, who did this politically, not because they followed Islam. Coal companies are tearing down places historic battlegrounds or trying in my area. Where is the outrage? Or was that too long ago? Just a "regional thang". Sacred is not the right word for this. Especially not for a Burlington Coat factory two blocks away, turning to a Community center, not a mosque. How many blocks away will pander to the sensitivity of anti-muslim bigots? We must concern ourselves with that now it appears. Sacred is not the word. Stupid is the word, stupid for how your bigotry is clashing with the efforts of our U.S. Troops, how you are doing and proving Bin Laden right with your anti-muslim protests and rages on this issue. They won't win hearts and minds with the enemy showing them THIS as their ultimate propaganda videos. Real Koran burnings, come on. We are seeing this crap here in Ky even. Stop helping the enemy and endangering the troops further. Keep your asshole-ish bigotry to yourselves. |
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To EKY, Interesting, so using a dictionary, you will define what is "sacred", and disregard the wishes of those who were involved, those who lost loved ones by members of radical Islam on 9/11. Is this what it means to be"progressive"..?? Being "rigid" in your ideas and not willing to listen to the wishes of others? You, (a person who is living about 1,300 miles away from NYC) is demanding which ground should be "sacred." I, (AR Babonie), would prefer that people who live in NY City and those who lost loved ones should choose which ground is to be honored. Or how it is to be honored. A blind man could plainly see who has the open mind here. EKY, you seem to be hung up on the issue of "what is legal" and "what is right." Let me help you out and I will try and make you understand... You are claiming that because the NY city officials have given a green light on this Mosque’s construction, it is therefore "legal" and should be built, and we should just shut up and go away. If we continue to talk about it, we are bigots. Do I have that correct..?? OK, but what about this situation... It is illegal for Gay people to marry in most states, so if I use your logic, Gay people should just shut up and go away because the law- is the law, and Gay people are "bigots" if they continue to fight this law. (Of course, Gay people would be bigots against us heterosexuals, if I use your logic.) This makes no sense EKY, you are losing this argument, so you quickly toss in the word "bigot" because you think it will shut people like myself up. But it isn’t working. Actually, you were the first one to use the words "White people." I never said White, or Black, or Brown, nor did I specify any race. (Go back and check your comment.) I said: "..If radical Christians blew up the WT Towers, I wouldn't want to see a 100 million dollar church built there either, so racism cannot answer why I oppose this Mosque.." To which, you replied:
"..Not really no, seems like you assume christians are WHITE there.." I never said anything about a person’s skin color, so which one of us is a "racist"..?? I was talking about a religion, I could care less about a person’s skin color. However, you seem to care deeply about skin color. Somehow, you manage to bring up Native American relationships into a conversation about the ground zero Mosque..?? OK, (not sure I see the connection, but I do have an open mind, and I am willing to debate any topic.) At any time, if you feel guilty about what happened to Native Americans, you could give your computer, your furniture, your house BACK to a Native American. EKY, giving all of your possessions "back" to Native Americans would help a Native out, and make you "feel" better. I personally have no guilt, being that I have personally never taken land from anyone. However, if you would like to use historical events to show that someone "owes" someone else "stuff", then Muslims owe everyone a ton of "stuff." During the Ottoman Empire, Muslims killed, slaughtered, raped, and enslaved thousands of English, French, Spanish, Italian, etc, people. I will be sitting here waiting for Muslims to pay up for what they did to my great, great, great, great, great, great, grandfather. (LOL) Let me teach you something, if I can. I want you to remember this for the rest of your life... (Because it has a lot to do with life, in general.) Did President Lincoln end slavery in America? Yes, he was a big part of it. But it took southern democrats to realize that keeping people as slaves was wrong. They no longer had the will to fight for slavery, and they lost the Civil War. Did RFK end the Italian Mafia in America? He was a big part of it, but it was good Italian Americans, who were tired of the Mafia’s violence and the killing; and they began to call the police and the FBI on their fellow Italians who were involved in the Mafia. This is what really brought down the BIG Italian gangs. Will the US military stop radical Islam? Our military can surely help out, but they can never really end it without some help. It will end when good Muslims begin to turn in the radicals within their neighborhoods and Mosques. When the good Muslims get tired of the violence and the killing done by their fellow Muslims, this hatred will end. Muslims are the only ones who can stop this violence. They MUST stop it. We (America) took the first step. We said that Islam CAN build this Mosque near ground zero. The next step towards peace would be Muslims thanking us for this freedom, however moving the Mosque to a different location because they understand why it upsets those who had loved one’s murdered near that site. The 3,000- 9/11 victims were murdered by members of Islam in the name of Allah. That is the God’s truth. It is called: respect. The location of this Mosque should be moved. We can’t move it because our constitution says that they have a right to build it there. However, Muslims should move it further away out of respect. |
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Not all families of victims are opposed. Some victims were themselves Muslim. HOW is telling the members of an entire faith that they are being disrespectful for wanting to make a Community center 2 blocks away, in any world, "open minded". Especially when it was extremists who did the crime, not just any ole Muslim. You cannot equate the two, and that is what the right is trying to do. Their motivation was political, not religious. I love how everyone goes to "the gay" thing with me. Religious freedom is decided constitutional law, Gay rights is on its way to the Supreme court for it's constitutional test, which such bans have now failed in district court. Different topics. Today, a NY cab driver was stabbed after being asked if he was Muslim . This is the fire you fuel. I am really, really starting to wonder what country this is... |
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Call it religious, or call it political; whatever you choose to call, it doesn’t really matter, members of Islam killed Americans on that day, in the name of Allah. They did it for Allah. EKY, I really think that you understand my point, you just cannot EVER agree with a conservative, so you will continue to fight this issue. You claim that we conservatives lump all Muslims together and that we believe that they are all evil. This is simply not true, but this is what you claim. Yet, you are lumping all of us conservatives together and claiming that we are all bigots. You are not practicing what you preach. Let me try another example, because I know that you can be reasonable, if you want to be, (without calling me a bigot, or racist, or whatever you have been calling me.) Here we go, one more try... This Mosque is fueling a lot of hate, correct? (Regardless of what you think about the people who oppose it), you MUST admit that this Mosque has people angry. OK, picture if the Mosque gets built at ground zero, do you think the anger will be greater than it is right now? Can you picture this Mosque being picketed everyday with angry people screaming? EKY, have you thought about the poor Muslin children who might want to visit this Mosque having to wade through angry people? Have you thought about all the Muslim people who could enjoy this center, but might stay away because of the anger it caused? I do not think that you have thought about that. Your goal has been selfish from the start. Your goal has been:"I MUST defeat the conservatives, I will punish Muslims by placing a Mosque real close to ground zero, making everyone angry, just to prove how liberal I am." WE ALREADY KNOW HOW LIBERAL YOU ARE. However, if this Mosque was moved a few blocks away, making many people of NY City (and America) happy, Muslims will be able to enjoy this $100 million dollar facility without being harassed by picketers, or feeling guilty about the hidden meaning of what this Mosque stands for. You are trying to argue if Muslims have a "legal" right to build this Mosque. WE ALL KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A LEGAL RIGHT. We are asking if it is "right" to build a Muslim center next to the area where Muslims launched the largest attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor. It is NOT right to build it there. Muslims will not be able to enjoy this center because of all the anger it caused. You folks are not thinking about that. It is very sad that a cab driver was stabbed in NY City. Someone is killed everyday in NY City, for every reason under the sun, (robbery, bigotry, rape, etc.) I am trying to STOP future violence by asking that a Mosque be moved a few blocks away. |
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Give me a break. My bigotry. That's a laugh, because you are so prejudiced toward any opinion but your own that you reduce the word bigotry (and your other favorite word - racist) to meaningless blather. I was answering your IDIOTIC (yes, I said IDIOTIC) ranting about what constitutes sacred. Yet, you still make my comment about whether or not I lump all of Islam into one not-so-neat package. Which it wasn't if you'd actually read and cogitate. |
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And if you note the recent reports, the Muslim cab driver was stabbed by a LIBERAL. Funny how the knee-jerk reactions that it must be a conservative who did certain things often turns out to be wrong. |
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He was no more a liberal than I was a Catholic for having worked for one of their hospitals. He had two diaries with the same anti-islamic BS the right is spewing according to reports, going all the way back to that time. And today, a drunk goes in one of their Mosques screams terrorist and Pisses on their prayer rugs . This is what this Rhetoric does. It is not the mosque creating the hate, the hate exists across the nation. It is the right, generating this hate. This is what they do before elections. A tactic to motivate the haters, those who play guilt by association to an entire religion, but only one religion, not the others for their "issues" which are a plenty. |
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This is a non-issue. A bait for the haters. The community in NY approved it, in case you missed it. Why is it everyone else outside their community that has the issue? They have been there a while, and its still NOT a mosque.
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Yeah, and he went nuts because the Muslim cab drive said he wanted the mosque (yeah, yeah, I know - it isn't a mosque - yawn) moved. Maybe he wasn't a lib, but he wasn't a conservative either. How about he was just a nut looking to kill someone and politics probably didn't play much into it one way or another. Or but wait, I forgot. You are the all-knowing, all-seeing purveyor of the truth. My humble apologies for not bowing down and taking your opinion as fact at face value and daring to question you, because we all know how open-minded you are when it comes to looking at more than one possibility. |
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They never discussed the Community center. Are you sure you read the story??? It is Islamophobia. And this is being trumped up by the right wing noise machine. That undermines our troops, increases their risks, give propaganda to the enemy, undermines the faith of a religion of 1.6 Billion people worldwide, and it undermines our nations founding on freedom of religion. Not to mention, its their property, they should do with it as they choose. Property rights and all. The "community" there, already approved it. Gee, sorry I point out that you are full of shit so much. Read more, it happens less.
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Oh, wait The apparent anti-Muslim assault on a New York city cabbie by a man shouting “Assalamu Alaikum. Consider this a checkpoint” produced an immediate round of recriminations over its connection to opposition to a New York Islamic Center and an apparent rising tide of Islamophobia. But as often at the intersection of politics and violent crime, the story doesn’t appear to fit any easy stereotype: The alleged assailant, Michael Enright, is — according to his Facebook profile and the website of the left-leaning media organization Intersections International — a student at the School of Visual Arts and a volunteer for Intersections, which recently produced a statement of support for the Park51 project and is funded by the mainstream, liberal Collegiate Church of New York. |
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Did I mention that not everyone believes exactly the same thing as the place they work for. His diaries suggest already existant islamophobia, as I detailed in the other comment HERE . I worked for Catholics, but that certainly did not mean I believed as they do. |
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P.S. Non-existant Facebook page. Maybe you messed up the hyperlink? |
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It may have been removed. (Facebook page) Still, this story will not fit into your idea that "Americans are being mean to the poor Muslims." More will come out about it. By the way, are you comfortable with this Mosque (Center) getting federal funds, if they do? Are we now going to fund religious programs? Interesting. |
Islam's goal is to squash, erase, and replace every other religion with Islam. If you are not a Muslim you are an infidel. They are famous for destroying Christian landmarks and building a mosque on the ruins, and they are famous for using deception to get the jump on their enemies. Anyone who thinks there is such a thing as a moderate Muslim is a moron. Islam wants all of Christianity eliminated. Just because every Muslim on earth does not carry an AK-47 everywhere they go, that does not mean that they disagree with the practice. We have a military force that does our dirty work for us so our entire populace does not have to go to war. Would anyone really expect every Muslim to be an active militant? We are Americans and our Military defends our way of life. Muslims have their own militant factions that carry out their evil will. We as Americans believe in our way of life and defend the actions of our troops, likewise, Muslims approve of, and defend the actions of their troops. Those who openly denounce terrorism do so because they don't see it as terrorism. They see it as a necessary procedure. Their troops want all of us dead and so do the rest of the Muslims that their violence represents. You bunch of dumb-asses need to do a little research before defending the biggest collection of America haters in our history. Anyone who defends Islam is the enemy in my book. Religious freedom is only valid when a religion is involved. Islam is a militant political action disguised as a religion. The first Amendment is null and void when mass murder and ethnic cleansing come into play. Political correctness and false compassion is going to get us all killed. |
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Another unintellectual bigot. Enjoy their company, you should be quite at home. |
An unintellectual bigot? Interesting analysis. I do however, know the difference between jihad and a stripper muff-rubbing a pole. I have read your pathetic arguments above and have come to the conclusion that you are anything but an intellectual yourself. You appear to be a blog talking points regurgitator with on a quest to follow a blind agenda. Someday when you get your head chopped off and it is racing you torso to the ground, you will tell yourself, " damn, that anonymous, bigot knew what he was talking about." This jihad is against all of us, not just us on the right. You are the type to defend anything the right is against. Being a terrorist's buddy on a blog is not going to save your ass later. It doesn't take an intellectual to know that much. Strap on a bomb of your own and join their cause. You seem like a true crusader. Put a rag on your head and let those whiskers grow a little, and you will even look the part. |
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Being a terrorist's buddy on a blog is not going to save your ass later....Strap on a bomb of your own and join their cause... See, you just proved it. Thank you! |
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Hey, thanks for putting that story about the poor taxi driver here. Turns out the Muslim taxi driver wants the ground zero Mosque moved to a location further away. And the idiot who stabbed this poor Muslim wants the Mosque built right there at the present site. So, your story proves how violent you liberals can be. Thanks for posting that, it helps prove my point..!! |
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It sure did prove your point AR. |
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Wrong again AR. Just working somewhere apparently does not mean you agree with their stances. Read closer ... ...Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said that two journals filled with anti-Muslim comments were found on Enright's person. The entries dated from when the student filmmaker was in Afghanistan to film a documentary about a U.S. Marines unit and to volunteer for Intersections International, a Manhattan-based group that promotes peace among religions....
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Not quite, you have to keep reading... |
See above.
www.DiscoverTheNetwork.org
Date: 8/25/2010 4:01:15 AM
Influential Islamist organization Supports imposition of Shari’a law Approves of terrorism against Israel and the West
The Brotherhood was founded in accordance with al-Banna’s proclamation that Islam be “given hegemony over all matters of life.” Accordingly, the Brotherhood seeks to establish an Islamic Caliphate spanning the entire Muslim world. It also aspires to make Islamic (Shari’a) law the sole basis of jurisprudence and governance. Toward this purpose -- encapsulated in the Brotherhood’s militant credo: “God is our objective, the Koran is our Constitution, the Prophet is our leader, struggle is our way, and death for the sake of God is the highest of our aspirations” -- the Brotherhood since its founding has supported the use of armed struggle, or jihad. The Brotherhood supports the waging of jihad against non-Muslim “infidels,” and has expressed support for terrorism against Israel, whose legitimacy the Brotherhood does not recognize, and against the West, particularly the United States. In the 1930s, the Brotherhood was largely an underground organization. Paramilitary in nature, it stockpiled weapons and operated clandestine camps that provided instruction in military and terrorist tactics. In part due to its call for a return to traditionalist Islamic values, and in part because of the unpopularity of the Egyptian monarchy, the Brotherhood’s membership swelled throughout the Thirties, with some scholars placing its net membership at a half a million. In the 1940s, the Brotherhood became more assertive in challenging Egypt’s ruling authorities. As a result, the government, under the direction of Prime Minister Mahmoud Fahmi Nuqrashi, forcibly dissolved the organization in 1948. In response, a Brotherhood member assassinated Nuqrashi. The government retaliated shortly thereafter: In 1949, Hasan al-Banna was killed by Egyptian police forces in Cairo and an official crackdown was launched against the Brotherhood. Thousands of members were imprisoned and many others were confined to detention camps. With Gamal Abdel Nasser’s revolutionary seizure of power in 1954, the Brotherhood split into two factions. One, led by Hasan al-Hudaybi, favored working with the government to gradually move the country toward Islam. A more radical faction, led by the writer and ideologue Sayyid Qutb, advocated armed revolution against corrupt Middle Eastern regimes and more broadly against unbelievers in the Western world. Dividing the world into the “Party of Allah and the Party of Satan,” Qutb declared that Egyptian society under Nasser was contrary to Islam, that it would have been opposed by the Prophet Muhammad, and that Muslims therefore had both a right and an obligation to resist it. A direct challenge to the views of mainstream Sunni theologians, who extolled the Islamic tradition of deference to the state and ruler, Qutb’s writings are now cited by many scholars as one of the first formulations of political Islam. A corollary of Qutb’s fundamentalist critique of Egyptian society was his abiding contempt for Western society, especially the United States, which he regarded as spiritually vacant, decadent, idolatrous and fundamentally hostile to Islamic piety. Executed in 1966 on charges of plotting to overthrow the Egyptian Government, Qutb nonetheless inspired a widespread following within the Brotherhood. Terrorist groups like al Qaeda have today embraced his call for violence in the service of Islam. Outlawed in Egypt in 1954, the Brotherhood temporarily receded as a political force. It re-emerged under Anwar Sadat, a sympathizer of the group. Taking advantage of the Brotherhood’s militant aversion to secularism, Sadat sponsored it against his communist and socialist political opposition. Later, however, the Brotherhood joined the political Left in opposing Sadat’s peace treaty with Israel, believing the normalization of relations with Israel to be a betrayal of Islam. With the assassination of Sadat in 1981 by a smaller radical Islamist group, the Brotherhood charted a more mainstream course, and in 1987 won many government seats in an “Islamic Alliance” with other parties. Although it remains officially banned, the Brotherhood actively participates, with success, in Egypt’s parliamentary elections, running candidates as “independents” under the slogan “Islam is the Solution.” In Iraq, the Brotherhood is represented by the Iraqi Islamic Party (IIP). As a member of Iraq’s governing council, the IIP has campaigned for the imposition of Shari'a law and, while publicly distancing itself from al Qaeda, has supported what it calls the “heroic Iraqi resistance” to coalition forces. Banned in Syria, the Brotherhood works clandestinely to foment opposition to the ruling government. In the Palestinian territories, Hamas in January of 2006 defeated the rival Fatah party to win the Palestinian legislative elections, becoming the first branch of the Muslim Brotherhood to control an official government. Outside the Middle East, the Brotherhood has expanded its operations to the United States. Muslim activists affiliated with the Brotherhood have founded the Muslim Students' Association, the North American Islamic Trust, the Islamic Society of North America, the American Muslim Council, and the International Institute of Islamic Thought. The Brotherhood also reportedly exercises a strong influence in Muslim communities throughout Europe. In recent years, the Brotherhood has attempted to forge a reputation as a moderate and reformist Islamic group that has renounced its violent past. Lending plausibility to this reputation has been criticism of the organization by radical Islamist groups, who have condemned the Brotherhood’s willingness to participate in the political process as heretical. These groups have also criticized the Brotherhood for supposedly abandoning violent struggle as a means of establishing an Islamic empire. However, numerous statements by the Brotherhood’s leadership belie its moderate posture. Ali Sadreddine Bayanouni, the leader of the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, has repeatedly disavowed violence while concurrently pledging his support for the terrorism of Hamas and Hezbollah. Muhammad Mahdi Othman Akef, a prominent leader of the Brotherhood, has expressed his support for suicide bombings in Israel and Iraq "in order to expel the Zionists and the Americans." He has also denounced the United States as a “Satan,” saying: “I have complete faith that Islam will invade Europe and America, because Islam has logic and a mission.” Many other leaders of the Brotherhood have likewise justified terrorism against Israel and the United States, with many defending the September 11 terrorist attacks against America. Jews are another common object of the Brotherhood’s hatred. Of the Jewish people, Sheik Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, the spiritual leader of the Brotherhood, has written: “There is no dialogue between them and us other than in one language -- the language of the sword and force.” Even as it is deemed insufficiently militant by some Islamist groups, the Brotherhood has had a discernible influence on contemporary jihadist terrorism. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the architect of 9/11, was a member of Muslim Brotherhood. More prominently still, Abdullah Azzam, a Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood preacher, was a mentor to al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. In May 1991 the Muslim Brotherhood issued to its ideological allies an explanatory memorandum on "the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America." Explaining that the Brotherhood's mission was to establish "an effective and ... stable Islamic Movement" on the continent, this document outlined a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" for achieving that objective. It stated that Muslims "must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands ... so that ... God's religion [Islam] is made victorious over all other religions." The Brotherhood listed some 29 likeminded "organizations of our friends" seeking to realize the same goal. These included: American Trust Publications Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers Association of Muslim Social Scientists of North America Audio-Visual Center Baitul Mal, Inc. Foundation for International Development International Institute of Islamic Thought Islamic Association for Palestine (parent group of the Council on American-Islamic Relations) Islamic Book Service Islamic Centers Division Islamic Circle of North America Islamic Education Department Islamic Housing Cooperative Islamic Information Center Islamic Medical Association of North America Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) ISNA Fiqh Committee ISNA Political Awareness Committee Islamic Teaching Center Malaysian Islamic Study Group Mercy International Association Muslim Arab Youth Association Muslim Businessmen Association Muslim Communities Association Muslim Students Association Muslim Youth of North America North American Islamic Trust Occupied Land Fund (later known as the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development) United Association for Studies and Research
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This is when ideologies and symbolism become more important than regular joes who are just trying to do what everyone else is doing in this country and that is having a community, i.e. live . We have to ask ourselves: if there was no 9/11, would there be such a fuss? |
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If there was no 9/11, then there would be no fuss. I believe that. However, almost 3,000 people were murdered on that day and the killers did it in the name of Allah, for their Islamic faith. Thank God most Muslim people are very nice and what the same things that we do. Really, it is only a small group of a few thousand Muslims who are radical. They have every "legal" right to build this Mosque. However, is it "right" to build it that close to ground zero? No. Thanks for the commen..!! |
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You wouldn't be having this discussion either, if the Constitution said, "Freedom of religion AND political idealogy"..but it does not. It says freedom of (personal/individual) religion. BUT, Islam is a combo, and does not get covered because it is religion AND something. Islam is both religion AND the necessary enslavement of all people to both its religion and its political ambitions. The political and religious ambitions if Islam, if held and acted-upon in any way by an American Citizen, is simple, insidious, and deadly treason |
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That is a great point that I hadn't thought of. Islam is considered BOTH a religion and a political ideology. Thanks for bringing that up..!! |
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Eky is a spawn of... ...why would anyone talk to him? |
This has been very interesting reading and I like the comment made by argugonian about the religion and political ideology. Gives me much to think about. You may have changed my mind about the 828 rally location. I am a fan of GB because he teaches so much untaught American history on his show. Plus, he does include history of all races and many African Americans have climbed on board his ship of thought. I was put off by Al Sharpton's hostility. But I can see that some might be offended much the way we are with the mosque plans. Keep me thinking. |
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Thank you for the comment. I like Glenn Beck. I pointed out the 8/28 situation just to make a point that we all do things that “could” piss off other people, and that we could change a few things to make it better. (For everyone.) IE- moving the Mosque further away from ground zero, or- Beck moving his rally to a different day, etc. Now, Beck claims that he didn’t know that 8/28 was the day MLK did his famous speech, and I have to take Beck at his word on that. Once he found out, it was too late to move the date. I have to give Beck credit; he kept it non-political, as he said he would. And nothing “bad” happened at this rally. Which would have been played 24/7 on the news if something bad happened. However, I am hopeful that Beck will get away from his “3 hour long radio INFOMMERCIAL about 8/28”, and get back to talking about history and political topics, which made him famous in the first place. |
It's not a Mosque, its a community center. There is already a Mosque near there, and a strip club, hows that for "Sacred"? You are right, they have the right to build it there, it is just sad that so many bigots want to stop it for stupid reasons.