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AMOD: Enough on "Gun Control" already!!! Stop blaming guns for the killings...its people who we refuse to deal with, they are the problem!

Controversial Content
Added: Wednesday, May 25th 2022 at 4:19pm by AMODPOVW
Category: News & Issues
Related Tags: guns
 
 
 

PERSONAL OPINION/COMMENTARY:

Okay, we need to just stop with all this mess about HR8 and Background Checks and all this other mess.  We need to stop being shocked at Texas, Buffalo, Chicago, B'more Calif. or any of the other locations where lots of shootings take place.  This is America, and guns and gun violence is part of our heritage whether we want to accept that or not!!

I am a gun owner and have been around guns in some fashion for most of my life.  I both respect and fear them, because I know first hand the impact of a gun in the hands of a person intent on doing someone else harm.  I also know the impact of responsible gun ownership and was once a member of the NRA.  We need to be clear, it is people who kill people and not guns.  A gun without a person to fire it is just a piece of metal!!  Period, full stop!

Now let's also be clear, I do not believe the 2nd Amendment as written was intended to grant uncontrolled assess to any and all kinds of weapons.  Even Justice Scalilia in his famous "Heller Decision" acknowledged that there should be some kind of control on the assess of weapons.  As Americans we have always reacted to a drastic uptick of violence by placing some limit on the assess to various weapons, but we never seem to want to place limits on the behavior of certain people in our society.  We are a gun culture and we just don't want to do anything about that!

For an example, there was an easy solution to the problem of Police Shooting of unarmed Civilians!  Take guns away from the Police!!  Well let me clarify that....take certain guns from the police.  If I had it my way, no Patrol Officer would have a sidearm!!  If a Police Officer is to protect and defend, then he does not need to be armed necessarily to do that!  Sheriff Andy of Mayberry fame never carried a firearm!  When Audey Murphy played the famous Sheriff "Destry" he never worn a firearm....its a pie in the sky thought but it could work.  Now, I would arm the Police Officer with (2) Tasers as his primary on body weapon.  Tasers can be employed to bring unruly suspects under control without using lefhal force.....but I would also provide the officer with a powerful backup!!  It Policeman would have in his Car an AR-15 .223 Assault Rifle and 50-100 rounds of Ammunition (Basic Load).  That weapon would remain inthe car unless the Officer or the community faced a life saving situation.

If and when the Officer draw that weapon from the car....the burden of proof rest solely upon him to prove with witness support that level of force was required to save life.  This would drastically reduce use of force situations with Cops.  There is one problem, to work we would have to remove assess to guns by the Criminal elements of our society as well as the General Public.   Assess to AR's or other Assault type weaons would have to be denied.  You could own a weapon....just not the weapons that allowed you to out gun the police.

But, we will never do anything like that because we are hooked on our guns....they are like a security blanket to us....and many of us feel insecure without them.  We think someone is going to come and harm us or take something away from us....and we need to be ready to defend ourselves.   We just cannot help oursselves....which is why again, its not the gun that has the problem....its us!

 

User Comments

As long as you believe that just because guns don't kill without a human to pull the trigger, it doesn't mean that every body should be allowed to have any and every type gun, including those made for war to kill people, and carry them into churches, schools and every other place....you and I are in agreement.

Guns doing kill people without a human pulling the trigger, but a human can't shoot and kill 50 people in 2 minutes without something like AR-15 or worse.  With a knive or a single shooter gun, they would at least be limited to one killing at a time. 

{#basic-cool.gif}

Lots of police have 12 gauge shotguns in the car. Officers get an AR15 to replace or in addition to?

Tasers? Hmmm....

The M4 would replace the Shotgun and every Officer would have one!

The Officer could have an additional Taser (two) if necessary.  This would resolve one aspect of Police citizen interaction and encourage Conflict Resolution.  It would at the same time up arm the Police for those other types of Conflicts.  If the Officer goes for this M4 it clearly has to be a life threatening situation....the burden of proof is on the officer!

I think a taser-like device could be useful and save lives, I suppose there are statistics out there supporting them.. but my feeling is officers should keep their side-arms as deterrent - everybody knows what they are, what they can do. 

M4's back in the car? (Just a minute sir - Ah'll be bach!)     Am not a fan of increased militarization of the police.   

Again, understand that this would require increased training on the part of the Police.  Back in the 80's I remember the impact that the German Police had on me as I walked through the Frankfurt Airport....they were on two man patrol....and one carried a Automatic Weapon!  It said that "I am not going to be outgunned"

If the Officers assesses a threat he brings his M4 with him.  If not than he must use the tools of deescalation.  Again...an M4 is one hell of a deterrent!!

NO, no M4s for the police.  No 'spray and pray' weapons by the 'good guys'.  What happens with all the bullits that miss their target?

Like in a school shooter situation crowded with children for instsnce.

1der I clearly understand your reluctance, but we must do something about this outgunning of the authorities!!

Is that so?  I disagree. Seems more of a.Big Media problem; if it bleeds, it leads. And there are enough seriously deranged folks about that copycats have their day.

Alternative: How about thousands of local volunteers vetted and trained. equipped with deer rifles?  Are there not enough Good Men?

Support your local sheriff -  We elected a good one.

If you Metroplex Easterners want to experiment in Your Community with dystopic weapons escalation give a few thinks about where it very well may lead - Not a Good Place.   

And don't you DC Dwellers drag all the rest of the country where you're headed...

 

1der what is the difference between a well trained Police Officer with assess to a M4 if needed, otherwise arm him with a Taser, and 1000 citizens armed with Deer Rifles???

The Special Officer in Buffalo was a good guy with a gun....it did not work!

That Texas town is not a big city Eastern location....its ural Texas and the first 3 cops that went in there were good guys....it did them no good!!

Weapons escalation has already taken place.....and its not in the cities.  The gangs that are killing each other in places like Chicago and Bmore are not doing it with AR's.....they are using illegal handguns for the most part.

I am speaking about the extreme situations and they are not happening in eastern major Cities!!  But as proved by the Texas situation....everywhere!

1der there is one thing that you and I can agree upon....and that is the Media, both liberal and conservative are to blame for a lot of this!!

I sometimes wonder what some of these folks in the media are talking about...as none of this stuff happens in the area that I live...nor in the area that most of the people I associate live!  Now there are some areas that I just flat refuse to go (Baltimore City) but there are parts of Baltimore City that never see any of the craziness....but listen to the Media and its the entire City!  Most people don't realize that all of those shootings in Chicago happen in 2 of the 10 Wards of the city....the rest of the city is as normal as small town america!

So yes, its the media driving the story as opposed to reporting it!

I think they should not be allowed to own machine type guns. Why would you need something like that? There should also be a limit on how many an ordinary person should own. Why would you need an arsenal of guns? 

I also think, because of your gun laws, that officers should carry guns, or otherwise your criminals would have a field day knowing the officer coming to their car to give them a ticket for speeding is a sitting duck! I have seen videos of an officer pulling someone over, approaching the car and next minute being shot at!  You really think the criminal is going to then sit there while the officer runs back to his car to get his shotgun.  But this is my opinion, I don't live in America.

hillmate....my idea would actually allow each officer to have a weapon more powerful than the present firearm he carries....it would be in his car!!  95% of Policeman in this country go their entire carries and never draw their firearm!!

Ofcourse for my idea to work, we would need to limit the assess to what you call machine guns (assault rifles) and like I say in the Post, that is never going to happen here!{#basic-laugh.gif}

And yes you will have those rare roadside incidents....but that is where training, and threat awareness comes in.....that rare traffic stop should not dictate overall policy! {#basic-laugh.gif}

"We need to be clear, it is people who kill people and not guns. "

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You've gone full blown leftard with your last couple of posts.  Your 'bright idea' is to disarm the police?

Look outside the beltway, old man, this ain't Mayberry RFD we're living in.  It's a society about to utterly collapse due to the rot at it's core.

You contribute to that rot.

Shame on you.

I did not say disarm the police.....I said up arm the police!!  On his person my policy would have him armed with a Taser but in ready possession would be an Assault Rifle that can be drawn if he assesses the situation to be a danger....that is a long way from being disarmed.  95% of Police Officers go their entire careers and never discharge their sidearm!!

I also note that my idea will never work....because we as Americans just won't give up our guns...which means the general population would then out gun the police (hell they do that now) but it was just a pie in the sky idea!

 

.because we as Americans just won't give up our guns...

And why should we? I'd love to hear your reasoning on that one.

And FYI, some intoxicated people can ignore a taser and just keep coming at ya.  My ex was one of 'em.

I can see it now, "pardon me, dear citizen about to commit serious violence on me, while I go back to my car and avail myself of a firearm."

Split second decisions often rule the day in these circumstances, often to the rue of the occasional innocent who gets caught up in it.

Yet one has to wonder how many people realize that George Floyd was no innocent onlooker selling loose cigarettes, but had, in fact, prior convictions for violent crimes, involving a home invasion during which he pointed a loaded gun at a pregnant woman's abdomen?

No hero, that one.  Prolly racist of me to say so, but yanno what, AMOD, I don't have a single fark left to give.

Actually its the Police Officers job to assess the threat....that is what he/she is paid for!!  That's why not everyone can be an officer.....that's why the job cannot be easy!!  

This is not the Wild Wild West!!  You cannot approach every situation as if its a threat....that's the problem we are having now!  It has got to be based upon training....and if the Officer enters a situation where he thinks it is a a legit threat he takes his M4 with him!!  Now guess what....he is not outgunned!!!!!   That's the point....give the Officer the firepower he requires for legit situations and the training needed to determine those situations!!

Floyd was no innocent bystander....but the last time I checked passing a $20 counterfeit bill does not warrant a death sentence.  Plus an Officer standing there with a M4 (if Floyd was a threat) I bet it immediately defuses the situation!  

As for the intoxicated person.....if you consider him a threat than you take your M4 with you or your partner draws theirs and you gun him down!   Period/full stop!

Oh, and you can blame the mental health crisis that no one wants to talk seriously about on Ronny RayGun, who closed all the mental hospitals, leaving our prison system (also rotten to the core) as the main provider of mental health services.

OF COURSE we're no longer locking up shoplifters and such.  They aren't killing people, but committing crimes against property.   Our prisons are bursting at the seams with mentally ill human beings and drug addicts that have been utterly failed by science.  Where's the cure?  Instead we force addicts into faith healing programs that fail 95% of those who 'take the cure' via 'treatment centers' and 12 step 'programs.

Tell me of ONE other treatment, medicine, surgery or cure-for any ailment at all - that fails 95% of those who try it yet still rakes in billions of dollars per year, blaming the victims themselves for the failure rate.

But yeah, let's disarm the po-po.  That'll fix everything.

{#black_quiet.gif}

Then what is the solution?{#basic-laugh.gif}

First things first, cure the moral rot that permeates every level of our society today.   To even begin to seek solutions when our Emperor is naked as a JayBird (and no where near as bright) is pointless.  This bullsheet has gone too far.  I am sad to say I've come to believe that nothing short of another civil war, one which results in the breakup of these United States, will ever be enough to satisfy EITHER side of our insanely divided political spectrum.  Two parties are not enough for a truly representative government.

In my life, I have known some excellent po-po, a couple of crazy ones (including a St Louis detective that was a huge Klan supporter) and one big, black, sonofabitch who beat the crap out of me when I was already handcuffed, inside the station, and being processed on a stupid failure to appear warrant on a traffic ticket.  I was not resisting but he was manhandling me the entire time, digging his fingers into my upper arm hard enough to leave multiple bruises, so I did get mouthy.  Once. 

The instant I got verbally snippy with him, he hit me so hard be broke my eardrum, and when I demanded the EMTs be called (i was bleeding from that ear and also hit my head falling) he drug me off to a back room where a large metal table with sharp corners was located; telling me that if I didn't stfu, I was going to 'fall' again, only this time my head was gonna land hard on one of those corners.  His intention was clear, he was threatening to kill me.

I've never written the rest of that story, maybe some day I will, but the pithy version is as follows:

I LEARNED FROM THAT ENCOUNTER.  I learned from each encounter with the police.  I learned not to resist, even verbally, remaining polite when approached and silent if detained...other than identifying myself as required by law.

I also learned that like any profession, there are bad apples in with the good, there always have been and there always will be.  I think a lot of idealistic cops soon become jaded, and the jaded soon become apathetic or corrupt.

Most importantly, I've learned how to be (mostly) invisible to the po-po.  The fewer interactions I have with them, the better.  I don't drive loud or flashy cars, I keep them registered and insured, my license up to date, little things that keep me well under their radar.

Bruce Springsteen said it eloquently in the song, 'American Skin'..."If an officer stops you, promise me you'll always be polite, and that you'll never ever run away, and promise mamma you'll keep your hands in sight."

AND, I've had two lovers that I met online come to stay with me, one was Canadian, the other was an Englishman, the one I've been married to for almost 20 years now.

In each case, before we even left the airport parking garage where I picked them up, I explained those rules to them, as one would do a child.

"If we get pulled over, sit still, be soft spoken and civil, and keep your hands in sight.  Our police are armed, nervous, sometimes trigger happy, and sometimes angry and corrupt."  I told them this before we even left the parking garage.

That's the solution.  But until certain segments of society start to understand the rules, there will be more killings, both of the police and by the police. 

And random nutjobs.

Looking at the post again, I acknowledge that I focuse on you and Scalia both saying that all kinds of weapons are not meant for everybody to have.  While I question the logistics of not having police with side arms...even though they seem to get those confused with their tasers these days for some reason, but at the same time, I think you might be on to something.

Since we refuse, as a nation, to curtain rampant carrying of Ar15s by anybody with the money to get them....including those known to be mentally ill in some cases, if the policeman was limited, that might still cut down on the "people killing people with guns" a bit.

And in addition, George Floyd, whose worst "crime" of the day apparently was maybe passing a fake 20 dollar bill would not have been so easily killed...by a cop using a gun to subdue and then kneeling on his neck.

You might just have something that, even if not workable in totale, might cause some re-thinking of how our country conducts its business and allows so many to die needlessly by gunfire.

Yeah, to understand my proposal you have to first move out of your corner!{#basic-laugh.gif}

I am clearly not disarming the police.....I am actually increasing their fire power.  It is a fact that 95% of our Policeman will go their entire careers and never draw their sidearm.  By giving that Officer one, maybe two Tasers for use doing those immediate interpersonal actions it can cut down on those accidental deadly contacts.  But by up arming that officer...meaning giving him assess to an M4 (Assault Rifle) that he can draw when he assesses the situation to be one of public danger it gives him the firepower to overcome almost every situation.

At the same time it puts him on notice, that if he pulls that M4 the burden for proving that deadly force was required is on him!!!  There can be no question that the presence of that M4 means deadly force is immediately a possibility!  Hell, many bad guys would immediately change their minds about what they were doing, but the Policeman would need to have his training in conflict resolution increased.   Because once he fired that M4 its on him!

Of course for this to work.....we need to reduce the total assess to most guns in our society.....and that is never going to happen!{#basic-laugh.gif}

I still keep hoping that we will, in fact, come to our senses at some point....although since we haven't yet, the chances seem pretty spotty.

I sometimes wonder if the solution is that all of us who want peace and safety move to Europe or maybe a small island somewhere and let the gun nuts kill each other off, then maybe this country would safe for children and minorities and some of us, if still alive then, could move back.  ***NOT A SOLUTION REALLY...JUST A WORK AROUND TO KEEP OURSELVES FAIRLY SAFE AS INDIVIDUALS***

EVERY WEAPON IS AN ASSAULT WEAPON.

EVERY SINGLE ONE.

:And in addition, George Floyd, whose worst "crime" of the day apparently was maybe passing a fake 20 dollar bill"

Yet one has to wonder how many people realize that George Floyd was no innocent onlooker selling loose cigarettes, but had, in fact, prior convictions for violent crimes, involving a home invasion during which he pointed a loaded gun at a pregnant woman's abdomen?

Wonder no more.  Biggest lefty mouth on Blogster just proved my point before I even read it's commentary.

Look let's cut right to the chase here!!  The entire point of this post is to state clearly that we should stop all of the nonsense about Gun Control and that other nonsense in this country, because we just are not going to do it!!  Period/Fullstop!

And if we are not going to do it....then we need to accept the fact that if we are going to have Police than we need to Uparm them.....equip every Officer with an M4 Assault Rifle so that he/she is not outgunned in any situation!  Period/Fullstop!

Give them Tasers (2) that can be used in Non-Lethal situations that the Officer determines he does not need his M4, but its time to accept and admit who we are as a society and stop the foolishness!

If the Officers considered George Floyd a threat...then approach him with a M4!

If the drunk on the side walk is a threat....approach him with an M4!

If you respond to a domestic incident and there is a threat of violence....come with your M4!!   

We need to accept that this is the society in which we live!!  If the Special Policeman in Buffalo had an M4 than the shooter may have thought twice....but at least the SP would have not be outgunned!!

If you are going to allow Officers to keep their sidearms....which I disagree with....then we need to upgun them to .45 Cal. ACP's!!  

This is not satire.....this is actually what I believe should be done!  It's time to stop all this nonsense!

I understand frustration,...my frustration is with a political structure that apparently refuses to stop the shread of firearms with the ammunication to back it up. I had  hoped it was satire, and you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but jut know any politican that tries to implement this partricular solution will fail utterly to get my vote.  If all it takes is an officer saying they were frigthened, then we have lunatic like the guy that killed George Floyd, who whatever crimes he might have committed in the past, THAT DAY, was only guilty of passiing a fake twenty dollar bill (for which the business called the police over) and selling loose cigarates.

Neither "crime" is death worthy and I will not agree to give police the right to murder somebody like they did him any more than I will give a teenager like Rittenhouse permission to kill the people he did.

When we accept that "we can't stop gun violence" we are accepting that our society is corrupt and violent to the core and there is no hope for a decent solution.

I will continue to support those politicans who want to do reasonable gun control, and ESPECIALLY AR-15s. which is a military weapon, in the hands of any teenage that has the money...or a friend that will buy him or her one.

you may think that I am "in my corner", but I intend to stay in that corner...it is the corner that is what I see as decent and humane.  But I wil not try to convince you because I know that is as unlikely as you convincing me.  {#basic-cool.gif}{#basic-cool.gif}{#basic-cool.gif}

On this issue, you and I can agree to disagree and "go our seperate directions.

Now for those involved in an active shooting situation...shooting up a school or whatever place, shooting and killing is acceptable but not when the police person is "nervous" like with George and many others.

Your statement about additional police training doesn't really take care of the situation. They have often had at least some training and still overstepped so what is to prevent them from overstepping with the m8.

" guns and gun violence is part of our heritage whether we want to accept that or not!!" Oh, so you have given up???

After sitting with this for 24 hours, I decided to try to express my take on this issue again....to hopefully continue the conversation.  

I see what you are doing here. You are suggesting a way to prevent some of the over-reach that police have done.  By removing their hand guns and leaving them with one or two tasers, you are eliminating the possibly of them getting confused between the two and inadvertently killing someone they didn't plan on killing.  I am making an assumption here, that there might have some kind of logic behind that suggestion and that was the only thing I could come up witih.  Forgive me if I am wrong.

However, I am still convinced that if we do that without fighting against the extreme availablity of military grade weaponry for civilians, like the AR-15, we are putting our police in danger without doing anything about stopping the actual gun violence that exists in this country.  I have never truely understood the distinction that "guns don't kill people, people with guns do":.  That sounds like a truism without any real meaning for the situation at hand.  We all know that a gun is an inaminate object, and I would argure with the primary purpose to kill or injure an animal or a human. (target practice is simply a way to get ready to fire on one of those two in essence regardless of how many people insist they ony target practice..that is nOT what guns are made for)

Trump has been quoted as saying "since cars are sometimes used to kill people, maybe we should control them".  The inanity of that comment is revealed by simply looking at the reality.  Cars and Trucks are in fact regulated.  One has to have a license to drive legally.  One has to drive a certain speed to not risk getting a ticket.  To get the license, one much show ability in handling the vehicle.  So, vehicles ARE regulated, so why not control who has access to guns the same way.

Also note that the infameous gathering of the NRA had thousands of protestors, so there is a movement for gun control.  I believe that AR-15 should have never been allowed in the hands of civilians. They serve no legitimate purpose...they destroy the meat of any animal killed with them, and no home defense calls for that much fire power...if it does, the residents are dead already.

I really believe to be a decent, sane country, we still need to have some REAL gun control in this country, otherwise we are doomed to a cycle of violence and death....of our youth as much as anybody.

I ask, what would happen if when you were coaching or leading one of your basketball teams in a game, a shooter appeared???  Do you want coaches to have guns (remember, since many mass shooters use AR-15s), that means the coach would have to have that or worse beside him on the floor where the game is happening.  Do you trust most coaches to know what they are doing with AR-15s???

This is my article of rebuttal, bear in mind it was writen in the heat of the moment during my shock that you were favoring giving up on something that I feel is important to keep fighting.

http://www.blogster.com/scenefromtheleft/my-solution-for-rampant-gun-violencecounter-to-what-a-moderate-suggests

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