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AMOD: Has America Crossed the Rubicon? Why is Civil War always the Solution offered by the Extremist on Both Sides? Civil Wars Don't Work!!

Controversial Content
Added: Tuesday, January 12th 2021 at 12:04pm by AMODPOVW
Category: News & Issues
Related Tags: civil disobedience
 
 
 

RESEARCH/PERSONAL OPINION/COMMENTARY:

"Anerrephtho Kybos" (let the die be cast)

                                                      Julius Caesar, 49 BC

What is meant by "Crossing the Rubicon"?

To cross the Rubicon is a metaphor which means to take an irrevocable step that commits one to a specific course.

In 49 BC, it is generally accepted by most Historians that Julius Caesar's crossing of the Rubicon River was the beginning of the Roman Civil War.  It is also considered by most Historians to be the beginning of the end for the "Roman Republic"!

So, I ask the question with all sincerity.....has America crossed the Rubicon?

I also ask with all sincerity why do so many people these days talk of Civil War?  If folks understood really what is meant by Civil War I am not so sure they would be rushing to use the term or urge that we as a Nation roll towards that kind of disaster.

First....let's make it clear, Civil Wars seldom result in the changes that those participating or encouraging it desire.  As a matter of fact Civil Wars tend to end in bloody failures!!

Yes, in 49 BC Caesar was the victor in the Roman Civil War, but the Roman Republic was the loser.  By the way how did that thing end for Caesar? (smile)

Yes the Purtians won the English Civil War, but how did it end for Oliver Cromwell?  The Monarchs eventually came back into power and Cromwell lost his head!

How about the American Civil War?  Jefferson Davis sure made out nice didn't he?

Revolutions tend to result in change....not Civil Wars.  Revolutions are based upon the principal of change, which means something different exist after the success of the uprising, but it should be noted that seldom does that change happen immediately!

So, I ask in all sincerity those of you who advocate Civil War, what is the end result that you desire? 

In the most recent case, do you want Donald Trump to be President?  Do you really believe that the more than 80 Million people who voted for Joe Biden....and trust me there were 80 Million who voted for Biden are going to now accept Trump as their President?

Are you ready to kill or imprison your fellow Citizens in order to keep Trump as your President?  And once you do that, do you really believe that Trump is going respect you for doing it.  Do you really believe he cares that much about you?

Also, Civil War normally requires enough people willing to die for a particular belief.  In this case, what is that belief.....someone stole the election from Trump?  Someone stole your vote?  What makes you think that once you succeed that the otherside won't feel as strongly as you do that their votes were stolen?

Talking Civil Wars never accomplishes anything.  Actually it only seems to encourage the extreme on both sides to arm up and try to out do the other.

And one last question.....what are the sides in this Civil War?  Is it Patriots vs. Commies and Socialist?  Is it Left vs Right?  Is it Conservatives vs. Liberals?  How do you identify who is who?

Bullets have no brains....once fired they do not discriminate!  People need to stop this insane talk of Civil War.  

What are you willing to die for?  If it is not your Country.....which is not under threat right now, then I suggest you do a rethink!

User Comments

I invite you to check out my post of today's.  I will admit that seeing your title, but not reading the article, is part of the inspiration for my article. I know that I do not want a civl war...whether "my side" wins or loses, but I certainly don't want those that would change the country from what it  is now, to win.

Those people, in my opinion, are those that want to use force to keep trump in power.  I never believed that trump legally, and/or without outside interference, won the office.  I said as much from day one, but I NEVER suggesting going to Washington with guns in order to force the government to change the leader over to Hillary.  I perferred Hillary, I would have been much happier with Hillary.

Instead of advocating violence, I advocated LEGAL redress of the issue, and peaceful legal Constitutionally guartauned protest of the horrible policies that trump put in place. And yes, I refused to call him the p word and never capitalized his last name.  Pretty tame "warfare" in my opinion.

The answer to the question of what would those 80 million people think, I can answer as one of the 80 million.  We would be truly ticked off.  Royally.  I donated more money to this campaign and its various sections than I have ever donated before, I put my money where my mouth is and donated to help Georgia Democrats in their effort to flip the state as well as various other places across the country.

And I took a risk on getting Covid-19 by going to the polls in person to vote for Biden!!!  And so did many of those 80 million persons, and those that didn't go to the polls followed the rules in their state concerning absentee/mailin ballots.

And on the who is who question....remember, no matter how we divide up, there will always be people "lost on the wrong side".  For example if Louisiana went to the trump side of the "civil war", I would be lost in the right city but wrong state.  That's how that works...sadly.

Again, these Civil War Hawks have no clue as to what they are asking for!

I am considering doing a piece on "Reality TV Syndome"!!  To many Americans think this kind of stuff is as simple as they see on TV....it isn't!

A quick point on the 2016 election and Hillary.  It is clear now that the 2016 Election was more about the US not wanting Hillary than it was about a bunch of people wanting Trump!   Trump has proved how crazy that decision really was!

I have said before that I didn't PERFER Hillary in the primary.  I just felt that once it was down to trump or Hillary, I had no choice. I was NEVER going to vote for trump.

I guess you could say I felt about trump, the way you did and do Hillary.  

Oh, and my opinion of trump has only gotten worse.  {#basic-cool.gif}

SFTL I do remember you saying that about Hillary!!

On a side note....I had a long conversation with my Cousin last night.  He is a retired Federal Law Enforcement Officer, and he told me that if that had been the White House there would have been bodies on the lawn!

He also has related to me that if such a thing is attempted again, that we will have a body count, and the Militias will hurt a lot of people, but they have no clue as to the hell that will rain down on them.

This is not 1776....and as a matter of fact a lot of these idiots that shouting 1776 have no clue what actually happened in 1776....it was not a good year for the Americans....so that will be my next Post, in what I am calling my Civil War Series!{#basic-cool.gif}

Hey, really, seriously, considering checking out my blog for today....intitled "useful idiots" for a meglamaniac  where i have shared some very interesting, at least to me, stuff about the act of insurrection that took place on the 6th, and the fact that the Pentagon has taken the infrequent action of actually stating their position vis a vis the election and the fact that Biden is in fact the President-elect and will be installed on Jan 20.

I added that to my blog when I found it out just in case someone that is still supporting the overturn were to see it, they would know that the military isn't saying they will side with trump.  {#basic-cool.gif}

Read it earlier.....and yes, you hit it on the head the military is stating they will not support any silliness!{#basic-laugh.gif}

@stfl:  You treated me like garbage the moment you discovered I did not vote for EITHER candidate in 2016 because I disliked Hillary and didn't know enough about Trump to bother, so I abstained from voting in that POTUS election at all. 

You held me PERSONALLY accountable for Hillary's loss, not because I voted against her, but because I didn't vote FOR her.

Prior to that I had been one of your most steadfast supporters on this site, taking all manner of heat from my so-called 'conservative' friends for speaking to you at all, for treating you like a human being instead of a freak.  (Though I do have a soft spot for freaky people, which is why I had liked you from the get-go.)

After Hillary lost, any attempt at conversation with you resulted in you accusing me of trying to change your mind, which I was *not* doing because I'd voted for neither candidate in 2016, the election was over, and I was actually trying to comfort you.

I got kicked in the teeth for my efforts.  Thanks a lot.

Since then I have pretty much left you alone, though I do confess to taking a poke at ya here and there.   Being discarded like a used snot rag over a vote I did NOT cast tends to make a person understand that the friendship was never real in the first place.  You hurt me.  Made me all buttsore n stuff.  Hell, I am *still* buttsore over it.

During all those years you and I could have been talking privately, and who knows?  You may have just managed to sway me over to your way of thinking.  Doubtful, but nothing's impossible.

Instead, our dialogue died.  Ceased altogether.  Never mind the slings and arrows I took on your behalf just for being friends with you, since the conservative rightwingers in here saw you in an entirely different light, a light I found both unfair and disgusting.

You used to be an interesting and well rounded individual, now you're nothing but an extremist political mouthpiece and a lot of what you post is simply not factual, even many of your own sources contradict you.

~shrugs~

We live and learn.  Enjoy your echo chamber, just remember it will drown out everything else, but you obviously don't want to hear anything but your own voice/opinion anyway, and the handful here who dote on your every word.   Hope all that backpatting was worth it.

So!  Now you have your way, Trump is gone, but you still can't stop writing about him and I doubt you ever will.

AMOD, I do apologize for the hijack, but PMs no longer work here and sftl has their blog set to friends only for commenting.  I can't be arsed to read where I am not welcome to participate in any resulting conversation.  That's akin to being lectured to, and I can get my fill of that by watching 30 minutes (or less) of CNN or MSNBC.

I wish you well, sftl/vickie/james...whatever you are identifying as today.  But if I catch you in the ladies room while you still have your junk attached, I'll still try to kick you in the balls while screaming like a banshee.   Girls gotta have *some* privacy, yanno?

I'll leave you with a song, perhaps we'll be able to meet for a drink someday.  Perhaps not.  Either way, I intend to show you the graciousness you refused to me, congratulations on your victory, I hope it serves you well.  A double helping, even.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbJmWCuMiEM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbJmWCuMiEM

Really??  You seem to remember it a bit differently than I do.  I told the truth as I saw it.  You often did that same thing.  No I was not diplomic, but just said the very type of thing you often said to me and others.  YOU are the one that announced that meant the friendship was over.

Once you did that, i decided to cut my losses and let you go and since you were likely to attack some of the others on my blog, had done so in the past, I decided you could go your way and I could go mine.

And that is how I remember events.

And thank you for your congratulations on my "win".

Oh, and I doubt very much that any of the scenarios you are imagining where you get the chance to kick me will happen since If I were in a women's room dressed as you imply, it would be in a place where that was acceptable by management, and YOU would be the one violating the guidelines by resorting to assualt and battery.

I worked the door at La Cage Au Folles in N'awlins through a couple of Mardi Gras weeks, back when I lived in NW Florida, so I am more than passingly familiar with the scene there, and where this sort of behavior is encouraged and where it's not.

It's not about TRUMP anymore, AMOD, which is why I have once again became politically active.  It's about dense city populations controlling the entire rest of the nation.  Good grief, Georgia's map was almost entirely RED yet the handful of blue urban populations set the tone for the peons in the country.

Urban populations are mostly the urban elite, who gentrify and force greater poverty on the urban poor, making affordable housing and other services almost impossible to obtain, while promising them more generous welfare checks.

They do not, and never have, taken into account the working class who live in the REST OF THE STATE.   Ditto with PA, CA, hello, almost every state with major large cities, with the coasts controlling the rest of the nation.

It's also about censorship and freedom of speech, about the loss of privacy, about the hypocrisy of "do as I say, not as I do" crap coming from the elites as they force us all to stay home even if that means destroying every small  business in our home towns, leaving us nowhere TO go, and no money to spend even if we did have a place to get out for a while, while they enjoy their dinners at fancy french restaurants...no doubt at taxpayer's expense.

Am I willing to die to keep Trump in office?   HELL NO.

Am I willing to die to preserve my God Given Rights to free speech, to privacy, to freedom of movement?   HELL YES.

You'd love to make it all about Trump but it's gone far beyond that.  He merely gave the public a peek behind the curtains.

WHERES THOSE STIMULUS CHECKS?  MUST WE WAIT FOR ANOTHER LENGTHY IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATION?  OR UNTIL NANCY PASSES GENDER NEUTRAL LANGUAGE IN ALL GOVT PROCEEDINGS AS VACCINES SPOIL ON THE SHELVES OF THE CITIES THEY WERE SENT TO?

Stop making it ALL about Trump .  It's gone far deeper than that and you're being disingenuous pretending you don't understand this.  You're smarter than that AMOD, so stop acting like you don't get it.

Okay so it is not about Trump!!

So why is the election fraud the rallying cry?

Your points are solid points that someone can sink their teeth into and debate....why aren't people presenting them?

Those urban centers and the surburbs that surround them hold people who can vote either way....why not convince politicians to speak to them.  Georgia is a classic example.  Perdue and Loeffler need the red counties and only a moderate number of votes from the Urban centers to win.  They both did well in those areas during the general...but did not win by a large enough number to prevent a runoff!  What Warnock and Ossoff did was increase their take in the "Red" Counties during the run-off that made the difference!  (Will be doing a post about that election)

Like I said, if people addressed the issues that you mentioned they would have far more people listening, but attacking the Capital solves absolutely nothing!{#basic-cool.gif}

Election fraud is the rallying cry because it was the straw that broke the camel's back.  Enough is enough.

I do not condone the violence at the Capitol, but when that many people feel disenfranchised, as in..."why bother to vote at all when the outcome has been predetermined years before "...people's tempers explode.

We have nothing left to believe in at that point, other than violent revolution.  I remain convinced that the front line of that mob contained many agents provocateurs, because your basic Republican respects the rule of law.

Yet I don't think many understood that election issues, the way votes are counted, etc, can only be resolved at the State level, as each state runs their elections as they see fit, the rules change at the borders.

That's why massive protests are (hopefully) going to happen at various State Capitols on the 20th.  I only pray that they remain peaceful, because what happened on the 6th hurt the Republican party, hurt it perhaps beyond repair, even.

So... yes , lets address the issues, but within the rule of law.

Totally agree with the process of addressing issues within the rule of law...but again the election issue is actually going to surprise a lot of people.

Truth be told using Georgia as an example, what happened was that the Republicans just got beat at their own game!  

I also totally agree that the basic Republican respects the law....but again, as these arrest take place, these are not your basic Republicans.  

Again, violent revolution requires a proposed end game...and right now no one is stepping forward presenting points like you have....so again most people cannot see the end game, all they see is the violence.  In essence no difference from the mindless BLM demonstrations of the summer.  What was their end game?

You need to get your points out there, or get someone to get them out there...because they are as I said, valid points!

Just a quick note....for the first time tonight I heard one of the people who was in the Capital told police after he was arrested...the issues he was protesting were almost verbatum the points you laid out!

I found that interesting!{#basic-cool.gif}

Just goes to show, the vast majority of those who voted for Trump (which I did for his second term, I abstained the first time since there wasn't a "none of the above" option) are reasonable, sane, and well informed citizens.

Sadly, I am seeing the same thing happening to the Republican party as what's already happened to the Dems, our traditional values have been all but tossed in the trash by extremists on both sides, and it's hurting the MAJORITY of us more 'normal' folks.

But even we can be pushed too far, and we'd ALL do well to remember that.

Imper...I would normally send this in an IM, but since it is not working I have to say it in Public, you have triggered that other side of my mind and I am not going to tell you how you did it (smile) but I am hearing you just a bit better today than I did several days ago!  

Don't know whether that is good or bad....but when I start talking to other people about you....people outside of Blogster....that normally means I am about to piss someone off, it has happened before!{#bag-on-head.gif}

LoL, somehow I think you can handle it, AMOD.   Yeah.   Just don't get in trouble with the wife and earn yourself a timeout!

Hell, she has been saying some of the things that you have been saying for a couples of weeks....she says I am too f****** educated to understand! {#basic-mouth-shut.gif}

Actually she agrees with at least 5 of your 7 points!

Sometimes I hate women!{#basic-angry.gif}

Careful now, you don't wanna get cancelled!

{#rofl.gif}{#rofl.gif}

George H W wanted a more civil war...kinder and gentler, I think he said.  And that from a WWII pilot and genuine hero.  Civil war is the biggest misnomer since jumbo shrimp.  The folks that are rattling their swords the hardest are those who haven't had the pleasure of trying to get small in the face of incoming fire.  You would think that after two decades of flailing around in the middle east with little to show for it, folks would be a little more judicious with that kind of talk.  I have been holding back but my little pea-sized brain is fixing to boil over and I am gonna have to write something soon.   Any how, good piece, brother...keep 'em coming.

BFD I try!!{#basic-frown.gif}

I fear people just do not understand.  I got email yesterday from a retired BG that used to be one of my Battalion Commanders in MDW.  He asked me to call him and we talked for about 40 minutes.  He is still hooked into some places overthere and what he told me should make a lot of people really afraid!

I am working on part 2 of this post....again trying to wake some people up!

Thanks for your comment, and as usual it goes without saying you are always welcome!{#basic-laugh.gif}

)

@bfd " Civil war is the biggest misnomer since jumbo shrimp."

I disagree!  The biggest misnomer...or oxymoron...is "military intelligence."

:)

The last time the Dems were in control there was a leaked story about generals being interviewed for star command positions being asked if they would, if ordered, fire upon U S civilians.  Not much is more chilling than that.  For all the basement dwellers who declare that no such thing could ever happen here...it has happened in our history on many occasions.  Would they be shocked to know that some of the most famous generals of WWII took part in a raid on WWI vets camped out in the capitol between the wars?  No, Kent State doesn't count, that was rogue action.

 

S:  I am more careful with that one since HBW spent 22 years in MI...

(smiles)

My how time flies!  Have we really known each other that long?  I remember when he was heading off on his first deployment, back in JoeUser days.

Let me jar yer memory:  you met HBW before you met me, he was blogging from the sand box when I joined.  But it has been a while, sweetie.  I will never forget the guidance and kindness you showed this novice blogger when I came on board, at HBW's suggestion.  You even came to my defense when attacked by the budhist jewish person.  Been a lot of cognac under the bridge since then.  Loves ya, kiddo.

Wow @ us going back almost a quarter century!

Time does fly, and the older one gets the faster it flies.

:/

It's been a privilege to know you, and the extended members of your family who have made briefer appearances here and there.

(((hugs)))   Share with MC, of course!

I ain't sharin' these...keepin' for myself...Charlie can get her own!!

Then these are just for her!   (((((hugs)))))

{#heart.gif} {#heart.gif} {#heart.gif}

If it wasn't for the last civil war you'd be picking cotton or tobacco and your wife would be cooking our meals and cleaning our house. 

Nope.  Slavery would have died a natural death with the industrial revolution, most noteably the cotton gin, which allowed far more cotton to be picked and processed by machine.

The civil war began over State's rights to seceed from our newly formed union, feeling they were being taxed without adequate representation in the Capitol.  Kinda like the Revolutionary war.

Even Lincoln would not have freed the slaves (and said as much) if he felt he could have preserved the union without doing so.  He was a white supremacist and no friend to the black man, wanted to send them back to Africa at best, keep them subservient to whites at best.  Enter reconstruction---building hatred--followed by Jim Crow laws in the south.   Slaves got fed, even if it was only scraps. They got some medical care, those plantation owners paid a lot for a slave so they had to be taken care of just like any other 'tool.'

Freed slaves, who often had no choice but to become  sharecroppers, often starved to death.  And those who fled north were worked just like slaves in the factories, housed in segregated tenements and slums, and there were no safety nets back then, either.  No food stamps or WIC or Medicaid, nada.

So once again, Amala, you display your astounding and WILLFUL ignorance, even in regards to something as basic as our first--and so far only--civil war.

With your intelligence so sadly wasted, you really should just stick to your video games.

Imper.....once again you never cease to amaze me!!

You knocked that one out of the park and as a result there is absolutely nothing I have to add!{#basic-cool.gif}

Wow Amala!{#basic-ohsnap.gif}

~in her best Elvis voice~

Thank you.  Thank you verra much.

:)

Dya think Alama was in some sort of car accident, people aren't ordinarily so...

Ooops almost violated probation!

You know I think they are pretty much done, sure terrorism is going to get worse - they call it patriotism - some say potato some say machete.

But really this was one lame coup, I'd make bacon free, done - you can't fight a war on mobility scooters.

{#rofl.gif}{#rofl.gif}

I've got mini gattling guns on my mobility scooter, and a flamethrower on my walker.   Now all I need to do is get to Missouri to dig up that old RPG launcher buried near an old trailer park we were squatting in at the time, if I could only find something(s) to launch out of it, lol.

See you on the barricades, after I take my Geritol.

{#basic-laugh.gif}

I really like guns, aaaand I'm not so keen on people - can i come - I promise to try and not shoot everyone - misanthropy makes me a bad shot.

Sure, you can push my manual wheelchair once the battery in my mobility scooter runs down.  All I have on that is a viking helmet and a couple of clown horns.

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